Transit City Plan

[Woodbridge_Heights]

Why is he so hellbent to extend Sheppard before everything else?

Both the Kennedy - STC corridor and the Eglinton line are obviously higher priorities.

Same reason that Miller put the SELRT before all other projects. To cement his legacy and affect permenantely how transit along Sheppard is viewed.

 

[SlickFranky]

Same reason that Miller put the SELRT before all other projects. To cement his legacy and affect permenantely how transit along Sheppard is viewed.

It has already been explained several times why SELRT was first out of the gate. You may want to see your GP and get yourself checked out for the afformentioned CRID.

 

[Second_in_pie]

Ford's 'must be underground' mantra is as infuriating as the 'must be streetcar ROW' mantra he's trying to shove aside...but Ford should know that the TTC's recent obsession with tunnels is one of the things holding back subway construction. Yes, we know people prefer subways, but when was the last time public opinion got a transit project built? Public opinion is irrelevant when consultation consists of displaying to people what's already been decided and then taking the words of the ten people who showed up at the event as the Gospel of Everyone. The point here is that putting anything 10 metres under the street will cost a lot of money, as we're seeing with Eglinton and Spadina. Got a valley? Elevate through the valley. Got a strip of grass or vast swath of parking lots? Trench it or maybe even look at some surface running. Yes, these options are good enough, and doing this on a system-wide scale will let us actually build all the lines people are drawing on napkins, and save billions of dollars along the way. The public would prefer a subway line that went outside sometimes.

Lines should be elevated in some places, typically to help ensure that lines are always as close as possible to the surface (the ideal). This saves a fortune and is best for riders. Some of Eglinton could be elevated east of Leaside. Same with parts of Sheppard, should have been with parts of Spadina, etc.

We're going to be subjected to months, if not years, of repetitive Sheppard vs Eglinton arguments and "Cancel this to pay for that" and so on. Here's some food for thought. There's reasons Eglinton was only cited to move 8% larger peak crowds than Sheppard east of Don Mills (5400 vs 5000). One reason, of course, is that these projections change daily according to whether or not assumptions A, C, and E were used instead of B, D, and F.

But the more important reason is simply the reality that one corridor is not overwhelmingly more important than the other. Eglinton is not the lifeblood of this city. Ooo, blasphemy! People in Peel are not going to transfer to the Eglinton line in any quantity. A downtown-airport rail link would eat up the to-airport crowds. The busiest point on Eglinton is east of Kennedy and that may never get built. Of course Eglinton would likely move more total people than Sheppard, but only because it's so long - much longer than Sheppard. But Sheppard could be made longer by running from Downsview along Finch West and even along, say, Ellesmere. Those corridors see no less current bus ridership than Eglinton and they'd connect more things than Eglinton would. Either way, we need to recognize that no, one is not sooo necessary and the other sooo not necessary. They're a lot closer than most are willing to admit (because then what else would people have to fight about on the internet?). Kill Eglinton for Sheppard or Sheppard for Eglinton? Meh, whatever.

I have no serious issues with ditching Eglinton to finish Sheppard, but I know other people disagree. That's fine. Ditching Sheppard to build Eglinton would be fine, too. Eglinton doesn't have an unfinished subway and it's just a feeder route. Scorning Eglinton a second time, though, would be kind of rude and congestion is a genuine transit problem, especially around the Allen. However, the real shame is that we're not going forward with the more pressing projects like the DRL, Danforth to STC, or Yonge, all of which would move bigger crowds and would fill key gaps in the rapid transit network in growing places where people are going. We need those and GO expansion and basic bus improvements before we need Sheppard or Eglinton. Still, even if Sheppard was 5th on your list of priorities, getting it first doesn't make it bad. Same thing happened with Spadina. It all has less to do with the merits or details of Sheppard or Eglinton or any other project and more to do with seething feudal jealousy and intense hatred of...what, Mike Harris? Not that one project can begin only after the other has finished.

I agree entirely here. First things first, if Toronto were to actually consider large elevated portions, we could see grade separated transit costs significantly decrease, making a proper subway network a better possibility.

A lot of Sheppard east of VP could be elevated, and there may be room to trench the B-D extension to STC in some places. Almost the entire route of the DRL going through the Don Valley and up Don Mills road could be elevated too.
Basically all of Eglinton east of Leaside, and the area around Jane could be elevated. Richview could be trenched, everything past that to the airport could be elevated. Not that we even need that right now. A strictly underground portion from Keele or Black Creek Dr. to Don Mills or even Yonge would be more than good enough to alleviate the serious congestion pressed on drivers and transit riders alike. That, the DRL, and the B-D extension should be the top priorities. After that, gradual subway extension on Sheppard, Eglinton, and the DRL are all good ideas, and I wouldn't really put one as more important than the other. All that on top of LRTs to start supplementing more crowded bus routes. Neither Miller nor Ford's vision here is very helpful. A combination of many different options will garner us the best transit network.

 

[Voltz]

Looks to me that the provincial government is really trying to hold on to their seats in Toronto.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...l-mpp-has-a-subway-funding-plan-for-ford?bn=1

In some absolutely shocking news, Ford, in a news interview, has declared himself to be in favor of this idea.

 

[Asterix]

Almost the entire route of the DRL going through the Don Valley and up Don Mills road could be elevated too.

What proposed DRL alignment are you referring to that goes through the Don Valley instead of crossing it in the vicinity of the Leaside bridge and what transit lines would it actually be intersecting?

 

[allabootmatt]

I don't envy Karen Stintz right now, that's for sure. Essentially, her job is to find the intersection on a Venn diagram containing three circles: 'Stuff Rob Ford Wants,' 'Stuff that Makes Sense,' and 'Stuff We Can Afford.' I have no inside track on the negotiations, but can only assume the overlap is vanishingly small.

 

[gweed123]

I don't envy Karen Stintz right now, that's for sure. Essentially, her job is to find the intersection on a Venn diagram containing three circles: 'Stuff Rob Ford Wants,' 'Stuff that Makes Sense,' and 'Stuff We Can Afford.' I have no inside track on the negotiations, but can only assume the overlap is vanishingly small.

I would think the diagram would be "what Ford wants", "what Metrolinx wants", "what can we do with $8.15 billion". If they can find common ground in there that works from a planning perspective, all the power to them!

 

[W. K. Lis]

At the end of Rob Ford's first term, we'll still be discussing and talking and planning about transit, but nothing will happen on the transit front. However, we'll still be going around Toronto by car, just it won't be powered by the higher priced gasoline in 4 years:

 

[lafard]

The question that that raises, of course, is if you park a utility truck Bennett Buggy conversion in Scarborough, do you come back the next morning to find your horse covered in graffitti?

 

[GraphicMatt]

The David Caplan shit is really worrying because he's essentially angling for a big delay as the government dicks around with the private sector. I think a number of Ontario Liberals see this as an opportunity to avoid paying out committed funds because they know the opposition is going to make a big stink about deficits and debt.

 

[GenerationW]

Meanwhile...

A barrel of oil went over $90 a barrel today for a bit.

Rob Ford... what me worry? The war on the car is over!

We will have a subway... in 10 to 15 years. Who needs light rail across Toronto? (We do!)

Yes, thank you for version #23,745 of your editorial on oil prices.

Looks to me that the provincial government is really trying to hold on to their seats in Toronto.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...l-mpp-has-a-subway-funding-plan-for-ford?bn=1

That's quite the capitulation! Probably also means that when Queen's Park's says their current $3.1 billion funding for Toronto transit is firm, they're full of it. Can't wait for the goodies they unload on Toronto in next year's campaign (if Ford is smart enough to wait).

It has already been explained several times why SELRT was first out of the gate. You may want to see your GP and get yourself checked out for the afformentioned CRID.

SELRT was first out of the gate because there was a firm (there's that word again!) Federal commitment to fund 1/3 of a transit project on Sheppard, and Sheppard only, and yes, it would have been a subway if Miller and Giambrone wanted it.

 

[SimonP]

Caplan is a backbencher, and isn't speaking for the Liberal government as a whole. He's also the fellow who was kicked out of cabinet for the eHealth scandal. He might rightfully have some bitterness against both Smitherman and McGuinty, so there may be some other motives to his friendliness towards Ford.

 

[GenerationW]

If Caplan doesn't go anywhere with this, it will just be the pipe-dream it originally looked like. If he somehow gets a deal done in less than a year, and McGuinty gets re-elected, Caplan gets rewarded. If McGuinty loses, Caplan has an inside track to replace him.

It's a no-lose proposition for Caplan.

 

[adeel]

Caplan's ideas itself seem reasonable, no? Maybe its because of a dearth of explaining how to pay for an expanded subway network, but at least its something, and to me it sounds logical.

 

[M II A II R II K]

And what about the PPP horror stories to do with transit. Anyway if it gets stuff built that would be beneficial, but where these lines get built is a defining factor.