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Transit City Plan

Which transit plan do you prefer?

  • Transit City

    Votes: 95 79.2%
  • Ford City

    Votes: 25 20.8%

  • Total voters
    120
It's entirely possible to have a tunnel for a decade without trains or stations if he wants to defer those funds.
A decade? Parts of the Second Avenue subway line in New York City sat unused with only the tunnel built for 35 years until TBMs were finally relaunched in 2010. If they stick to the current schedule, the first phase will open in 2016 - 44 years after construction began. Though most of the existing tunnel is part of the as-of-yet unfunded Phase 2 - so who knows how many years it might be before that tunnel is used, if ever.
 
A decade? Parts of the Second Avenue subway line in New York City sat unused with only the tunnel built for 35 years until TBMs were finally relaunched in 2010. If they stick to the current schedule, the first phase will open in 2016 - 44 years after construction began. Though most of the existing tunnel is part of the as-of-yet unfunded Phase 2 - so who knows how many years it might be before that tunnel is used, if ever.

A decade for Ontario because the first new government elected with a Toronto core would restart the project almost immediately.

New York got stuck for a number of reasons beyond the person in power not wanting to do it.
 
Just when we thought we had some sort of a transit plan, someone screws it up for another plan... again.

From The Star:

TTC reopens Scarborough subway debate in surprise move

Just as the province and city were poised to sign off on the latest LRT transit plan, the city councillors on the Toronto Transit Commission have thrown open the debate again on subways versus LRTs.

Moments after declaring a downtown relief subway line was its top priority, the TTC board asked transit staff to prepare feasibility reports on converting the Scarborough RT into a subway rather than the LRT that is planned.

They approved a second study on a subway along Sheppard.

The move infuriated one TTC commissioner.

TTC commissioner John Parker, who was out of the room praising the decision on a downtown relief line, confronted his commission colleagues afterwards, telling them that voting in favour of subway studies was “a stupid, stupid, irresponsible thing.”

“(Ontario Transportation Minister Bob) Chiarelli looks like the only grown-up in the room,” an angry Parker told TTC chair Karen Stintz and vice-chair Glenn De Baeremaeker, who moved the motion to restudy the SRT as a subway.

De Baeremaeker said he was sure it would show that for $500 million more than the cost of converting the SRT to the LRT currently planned, the city could convert it to a subway.

Etobicoke Councillor Peter Milczyn then asked for another study on the Sheppard subway line favoured by Mayor Rob Ford.

Stintz insisted that the studies don’t reopen the hard-fought debate at council earlier this year over the subways favoured by the mayor and the LRTs that council approved to spread $8.1 billion in provincial transit money around the city.

“Nothing that we did today changes that decision,” she said.

“I’m confident we’re going to have one study come back saying it is feasible to extend the Bloor-Danforth subway to Sheppard and I’m also confident the feasibility study will also say it’s not feasible to extend the move to Don Mills Station,” she told reporters.

“Asking for a feasibility study is well within our rights and valuable information for the public,” said Stintz.

Councillor Josh Matlow, who is not on the transit commission, called the TTC decision a potentially disastrous folly.

People don’t want any more delays in building, he said.

“Public confidence declines in the TTC, in council and the government every time we reopen debates and have them over and over again,” he said.

“Those of us who wanted to move forward with a plan that could be supported by the provincial government and Metrolinx won the day on behalf of the residents of Toronto. What the TTC have done today is reopen the debate and given the mayor a perfect platform to repeat, “Subway, subway, subway,” over and over again and, now I hear more people joining in that chant,” said Matlow.

TTC CEO Andy Byford said he expected to ink a master agreement between the city, the TTC and Metrolinx very soon that authorizes moving ahead with building four LRTs with $8.1 billion in provincial funds. That agreement could come to council as early as next week, according to Stintz

Don't study! Do!

We have had enough studies and plans. Its time to just get the things built. Don't wait for the next person with another great idea, just do it.
 
Queen's Park must be getting pretty livid right about now and who could blame them?

I don't think there is any other city on the planet where a senior government pays for 100% of the mass/rapid transit expansion and the city that would benefit can't figure out what they want to do with it.

I remember back in Miller's days when he was doing his ussual Ottawa bitch session complaining about how Toronto wasn't getting enough stimulus money so Harper offered $300 million for Sheppard LRT and 3 years later Toronto hasn't used one nickel of that money. Ottawa should take the money back as it was a stimulus fund not one that was to be kept in vault for some unknown project to be completed at some unknown date.

Queen's Park should put it's foot down and tell Toronto, and rightly so, that you have proven yourself to be completly incompetent on the transit file and withdrawl ALL of the $8 billion and tyell them it's back on the table when they decide to pony up atleast the same amount by much higher taxes or buying bonds and paying them back over a longer period of time.
If Queen's Park just turned around and told Toronto that the deal and all the money is off the table how could Toronto possibly complain?
 
Or, at least give it to municipalities that have a (relatively) solid idea of what they want to build.

I'm sure Chiarelli really wouldn't mind giving Ottawa's Western LRT extension a little funding boost, considering that it will pass right through his riding...
 
Just when we thought we had some sort of a transit plan, someone screws it up for another plan... again.

From The Star:



Don't study! Do!

We have had enough studies and plans. Its time to just get the things built. Don't wait for the next person with another great idea, just do it.
Right, because it's a bad thing to have studies now, but it was a good thing to not have had transparent studies leading up to Transit City.

These Councillors can read the tea leaves with a 2013 Provincial election virtually certain, and the Liberals far from certain of being re-elected. So everything (except Eglinton.....I think) is up for grabs.

Study, and study some more!!!
 
What's going to happen is everything but a shortened Eglinton gets canned by the Tories in 2013 and we've lost the opportunity of a generation. No, I'm not being negative; keeping Eglinton is being optimistic. Hudak has stated plain and simple that there will be subway construction "when we find the money" -- which is to say in 2020 when the deficit is probably put under control. By then, Transit City will have been yet another failed plan and we'll have to fight these battles all over again.
 
Right, because it's a bad thing to have studies now, but it was a good thing to not have had transparent studies leading up to Transit City.

Studies and facts were more than clear to anyone not wearing subway goggles when city council voted, there is no need for anymore of this nonsense.

Only possible upside is if the report on Sheppard makes it abundantly clear yet again how a subway is a financial train wreck.
 
This is what is wrong with our society; people take too long to make a final decision. Everyone wants a piece of the pie and have their own interest. In the end, we get nothing done.

The LRT is in place. The only reason for scrapping the idea is to diver the funds into the DRL. Otherwise, please proceed and stop wasting time.
 
And plus they talk about subways but have no plan or method of paying for them. Just an open ended promise for the sake of preventing LRT work from progressing.
 
And plus they talk about subways but have no plan or method of paying for them. Just an open ended promise for the sake of preventing LRT work from progressing.
What about the Toronto's Long Term Transportation Plan and Funding (Investment) Strategy - http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/viewAgendaItemHistory.do?item=2012.EX23.1

Public consultation should begin soon, and the report on recommendations should come out in Spring 2013.

The tender to do this was issued last week, as part of the "Public Consultation Services for the Official Plan 5-Year Review". - https://wx.toronto.ca/inter/pmmd/calls.nsf/0/10AAF72FB9E2A29E85257A9C005C4245?OpenDocument - the tender document https://wx.toronto.ca/inter/pmmd/ca...C005C4245/$file/9119-12-7191 Viewing Copy.pdf looks like a good read.
 
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