Paleo
Active Member
I'd wager that TC is more alive than monorails in Toronto.
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Transit City Plan
- Thread starter 299 bloor call control.
- Start date
I'd wager that TC is more alive than monorails in Toronto.
Justin10000
Banned
Transit City is very much alive. The Eglinton Crosstown, and the SRT upgrade was TC.
Street level LRT will be back. There is little chance Ford will win a second term, and depending who is in power, might just revert back to the original plans.
What is dead for certain in Toronto is Monorails. Never going to happen!(Thank god)
Elements of it will survive, but the brand and some of the lines proposed in it are dead.
sixrings
Senior Member
If LRT is proposed in the future I can only imagine similar lines being announced. TC lines were chosen partially based on its ridership. Any future line proposal would also need high ridership. As a result I cant see how these lines wouldnt re appear. That being said I could see how Donmills might simply become a DRL.
andrewpmk
Senior Member
The Finch West LRT and the Scarborough-Malvern LRT (the one along Eglinton, Kingston Road, Morningside) could conceivably be revived under a new mayor. These in my view were the parts of the plan that actually made sense.
The Jane LRT was horribly flawed and has 0 probability of ever being built. The Don Mills LRT might become a Downtown Relief Line subway in the distant future.
The Sheppard East LRT is unlikely to ever be built in the Transit City form. The transfer at Don Mills was almost universally hated by everyone who lived in that area. Wait 10 or 20 years or so until the 401 in Scarborough is jammed all day 7 days a week like the 401 in Etobicoke is right now, then there might be enough political will to get the subway extended east and west.
The Waterfront West LRT will probably never be built. In my view, running the Lakeshore West GO train line more frequently and building a GO station at Humber Loop with a transfer to the 501 streetcar would totally eliminate the need for this project.
The Jane LRT was horribly flawed and has 0 probability of ever being built. The Don Mills LRT might become a Downtown Relief Line subway in the distant future.
The Sheppard East LRT is unlikely to ever be built in the Transit City form. The transfer at Don Mills was almost universally hated by everyone who lived in that area. Wait 10 or 20 years or so until the 401 in Scarborough is jammed all day 7 days a week like the 401 in Etobicoke is right now, then there might be enough political will to get the subway extended east and west.
The Waterfront West LRT will probably never be built. In my view, running the Lakeshore West GO train line more frequently and building a GO station at Humber Loop with a transfer to the 501 streetcar would totally eliminate the need for this project.
Jim12
Banned
Hey. I'm not saying my views are necessarily gospel. But I would suggest that changing a fundamental transport planning tenet (that of connecting our urban centres) to using transit to spur development along avenues should have warranted more public debate than it received. Particularly, when you expect the public to dramatically alter travel and commute patterns to fit your fantasy network.
rbt
Senior Member
I think Lastman did more than enough on that particular item. The avenues thing wasn't Miller's plan (as Mayor), he was just following through on what the planning department began shortly after they were all amalgamated together.
Rainforest
Senior Member
I would not write off Jane and Waterfront West.
Jane LRT might be build as a branch of Eglinton; all density is north of Eglinton anyway. That would require about 4 km of tunnel (Eglinton to Wilson), which is expensive but not impossible. North of Wilson, Jane is wide enough for 2 LRT lanes + 4 general traffic lanes.
Waterfront West LRT may be revisited if / when the DRL West subway is built. If there is a subway station in the Queen / Dufferin area, it will be possible to add about 1.5 km of streetcar tunnel between that station and Roncesvalles, where the Lakeshore ROW begins.
I agree with the rest of your points, particularly regarding the Eglinton - Kingston Road - Morningside - UTSC light rail line that got largerly overlooked.
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I think the most important part of the WWLRT is the Bremner-Fort York ROW. That area has been densifying like mad, and will continue to densify. The Queens Quay ROW is convoluted and I don't think has enough capacity, and isn't convenient enough, to effectively serve the CityPlace area. Having the Bremner ROW, which is pretty much a straight shot to Union, would do wonders for the area.
As for Jane and Don Mills, I've said this before, that both the Jane and Don Mills LRTs should be built as branches of the Eglinton LRT, using the central tunnelled section. The DRL would end at Eglinton and Don Mills, requiring and LRT transfer to continue further north.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
There is an Official Plan and Municipal Comprehensive Review going on, accessible at this link. Included is a survey (at this link), so it might be best to add comments on Transit City, so it can be at least recorded.
Jonny5
Senior Member
A straight shot to Union? The ROW, probably wide enough for one track, ends west of Spadina. How would it get into Union? Where would the portal go? It seems to me that despite rumoured planned accommodations for this line development has blocked it's existence. It had a chance 10 years ago. Now it's impossible, unless it's 100% surface.
Northern Magus
Active Member
East of Spadina they'll have to go underneath Lakeshore or the rail tracks. And I don't think it'll be easy or cheap.
I do, however, agree that the line is both needed and vital.
The Bremner ROW has been built to eventually accommodate it. The plan was that it would dip into a portal just west of Simcoe (or maybe York, I forgot, one of those two), and pass under the concourse of the ACC into a new platform at Union.
Just because development is there now doesn't mean that they've encroached on the ROW. Street ROWs are generally very well protected. I'd venture to say that even though the design of street itself may have changed over the past 10 years, that the ROW width has remained unchanged.
Tuscani01
Senior Member
The ROW reserved in the centre of Ft. York Blvd. is wide enough for 2 LRT lanes. East of Spadina, the LRT could easily take over 2 traffic lanes on Bremner. The road is lightly used (Except for the left turn lane at Spadina) and reducing it by one lane will barely have any effect on traffic outside of the evening rush hour. There are also only 2 left turns along Bremner East of Spadina, meaning streetcars in a dedicated ROW would barely be affected by traffic on this stretch.
TonyV
Senior Member
Royson James in this morning's Star:
For good measure here's a link to James' full article today:
http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1057658--james-waterfront-rebuff-first-of-many-for-ford
I get the gut feeling that Transit City is not dead. I think Council may have found its collective chops.
"Mayor Ford unilaterally killed Transit City on his first official day in office — because he didn’t like streetcars running in the way of automobiles on city streets. He didn’t seek city council approval. And he got away with it.
If Ford were to attempt that today, he’d face vigorous push-back. It’s not that the mayor has any less authority or fewer powers; rather, the political landscape has changed. Councillors now know they can rally the votes to reject administration proposals injurious to the city.
This realization came too late to save Transit City. It came just in time to guide the difficult decisions councillors now face over service cuts in the 2012 budget."
If Ford were to attempt that today, he’d face vigorous push-back. It’s not that the mayor has any less authority or fewer powers; rather, the political landscape has changed. Councillors now know they can rally the votes to reject administration proposals injurious to the city.
This realization came too late to save Transit City. It came just in time to guide the difficult decisions councillors now face over service cuts in the 2012 budget."
For good measure here's a link to James' full article today:
http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1057658--james-waterfront-rebuff-first-of-many-for-ford
I get the gut feeling that Transit City is not dead. I think Council may have found its collective chops.