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Transit City Plan

Which transit plan do you prefer?

  • Transit City

    Votes: 95 79.8%
  • Ford City

    Votes: 24 20.2%

  • Total voters
    119

jn_12

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Excuse the double post. Still learning the ins and outs of quoting on this forum...

Eglinton Crosstown benefits everyone, how much clearer can that fact be emphasized?

-Tourists get from Pearson to Yonge St in a half hour.
-905ers ditto via a Renforth MT terminal.
-Limitless local residential/commercial developments en route (Scarlett Mills condos/Weston/Eglinton West BIA/boosts Forest Hill's property values, etc.)
-Limitless newcomer low-income residents (bulk of daily frequent ridership)
-Yonge& Eglinton achieving 'city centre' type status

and that's just the benefit to the GTA. For the TTC this equates to...

-Alleviation of existing system lines. Contrary to transit myth the Yonge line won't be overran with too many new passengers. New users of Eglinton will be former bus riders, the majority of whom will use YUS via Allen/Eglinton West not Yonge St. BD however benefits the most, with close to one-third it's riders now served by Eglinton.
-Improves surface transit due to greater interchange of north-south routes at Eglinton Ave. As such more buses can be routed less frequently on certain overutilized routes and instead increases service to outlying suburban areas.

There are other benefits too but you can see how in the long term you'll wonder how Toronto ever got along without Eglinton Crosstown :cool:!

I agree with everything you've written. I think we need a crosstown Eglinton line, but I think it would be far more beneficial if that line was a subway line. If we're even discussing the prospects of having to upgrade that line in the future, why not just cut to the chase and build what we will need in the future, now?
 

DENTROBATE54

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I considered Yonge to Kipling on the BD line (35-36 mins r/h), took into account less frequent stoppage and Eglinton's proximity to Dixon/Pearson. If EC's done as a subway it's very feasible to get from Yonge-Eglinton to Pearson within 30-40 mins easy.

Even if EC's done as a streetcar, Yonge-Black Creek (comparative to Yonge-High Park) would be 17 mins or sooner. From there several options to Pearson could be implemented.

-BRT via Hwy 400/401 (obviously the fastest hence best option with ROWs)
-BRT via Eglinton/Renforth/Carlingview
-BRT via Weston/Dixon (similar to 58 yes but without local stops)
-LRT (surface) to Renforth; (tunnel) thereafter to Terminal 3. The last option will mostly likely be what the TTC considers. If routed in whatever's still vacant of the Richview Expressway lands don't be surprised to see a SRT-type routing (Kennedy-Ellesmere) occuring from Jane St westwards
 

Towered

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Then there is still the issue of building the Dundas line north of Bloor to connect with St Clair as this will require a full EA since the original tracks have been removed when the road was rebuilt some years ago. If the Tracks were still there, then all TTC had to do is rebuild the track and worry about the connection between Dundas and St Clair.

As I was saying in another thread, it would be fantastic if streetcar service were restored to the Junction on Dundas, but I had no idea that it was even on the TTC's radar. I thought their policy was to not build anymore track for mixed use routes, which this section would undoubtedly have to be since there's absolutely no room for a ROW.
 

drum118

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As I was saying in another thread, it would be fantastic if streetcar service were restored to the Junction on Dundas, but I had no idea that it was even on the TTC's radar. I thought their policy was to not build anymore track for mixed use routes, which this section would undoubtedly have to be since there's absolutely no room for a ROW.

It will have to be in the mix traffic and it is on the radar.

It will be use to get to St Clair when the line gets extended to Jane St.

By doing so, it will cut down on the amount of time the car has to travel to Bathurst to enter/leave service that occurs today.

When the St Clair line gets extended to Kipling, it will have to be in mix also as there is no room there now.

If and when various lines exceed 100,000 riders, subways will take place or maybe we will see monorail system then.

17% is to the downtown area. Eglinton line can be built into the airport with very little problem so long the Blue22 is cancel or the agreement is rewritten to allow it. As it stands now, the agreement does not allow any steel wheel system on the GTAA land other than the blue22 and the people mover.
 

Mike in TO

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Are all the Transit City Lines as LRT signed sealed and done?

I'm of the opinion that Eglinton and the Sheppard East extension should consider heavy rail (Subway) and it is my hope that Metrolinx (GTTA/the province) will have some influence on to eventual outcome given that they are funding 2/3 of this. The city and the current elite of transit advocates have a strong hold on Miller and his executive that every new project within 416 should be LRT and that subways seem to have no future in 416.... Transit City is a great plan overall - but Eglinton in particular has the densities and future development potential to warrant a full subway and Sheppard is already half built and should be completed regardless of what the naysayers have to say - just finish the damn thing.

I'm very concerned that these two projects in particular will be completed at a lower order of transit then they should be.... this is especially true given the fact the the McGuinty government appears willing to make significant transit investments as long as the economy remains relatively strong. It would be a tragic for Toronto to miss the opportunity to build a proper east-west subway line across Eglinton including to the airport (Cannon at the Fed level has stated numerous times that the Harper government supports an airport connection - no one at UT is a harper fan... but if there is potential political leverage for transit funding it should be targeted) and the current provincial government may be willing to fund it if the proper pressure was applied.

That said we should get on with the EAs for the rest of transit city.... I'm just hopeful that the province will step in on both the Eglinton and Sheppard lines and set the city straight.... they have every right to do so given the capital funding support that they have pledged.

I guess I can answer my own question after a high level discussion with the powers that be at Metrolinx - some of the board members believe that for specific lines such as Eglinton or Sheppard that the subway option should at least be studied/reviewed prior to moving on with LRT - however the decision is entirely political and nothing but LRT will be looked at. The province has decides not to infringe in any way on transit planning in Toronto. Transit City is the City of Toronto's plan and therefore it is the job of Metrolinx to implement the City of Toronto plan (i.e. not to question it or suggest other modes such as subways).

Unfortunate as all options should at the very least be reviewed, but the province is deferring entirely to the wishes of the City of Toronto.
 

billonlogan

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The province has decides not to infringe in any way on transit planning in Toronto. Transit City is the City of Toronto's plan and therefore it is the job of Metrolinx to implement the City of Toronto plan (i.e. not to question it or suggest other modes such as subways).

Transit City will take years to complete and provincial govts change as does transit planning and policy. I suspect whoever is going to cut the biggest cheque will have a say on what technology is used.
 

RedRocket191

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Transit City will take years to complete and provincial govts change as does transit planning and policy. I suspect whoever is going to cut the biggest cheque will have a say on what technology is used.

One of MoveOntario 2020's strong points is that municipalities don't have to pay the capital costs of the construction projects. They only have to pay operating costs.

I don't know Mayor Miller, but i doubt he would say no if the province offered to upgrade all the lines to subway - just as long as the 0% municipal money part stayed at 0%.
 

allabootmatt

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Drum118, anything you can share as to what may be added to Transit City? I think it has the potential to be a great network, if the LRT is built correctly and if a few glaring omissions are corrected: most notably the complete ignoring of the entire city south of Bloor.

It seems awfully logical that the proposed Jane and Don Mills lines be extended underground into the core--what the hell do the TTC's planners think southbound passengers on Don Mills will be trying to do? Get souvlaki at Pape and Danforth!? Throw in those two extensions (and link them up) and you've got a real network.
 

DENTROBATE54

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Drum118, anything you can share as to what may be added to Transit City? I think it has the potential to be a great network, if the LRT is built correctly and if a few glaring omissions are corrected: most notably the complete ignoring of the entire city south of Bloor. It seems awfully logical that the proposed Jane and Don Mills lines be extended underground into the core--what the hell do the TTC's planners think southbound passengers on Don Mills will be trying to do? Get souvlaki at Pape and Danforth!? Throw in those two extensions (and link them up) and you've got a real network.

The biggest problem with TC in theory is that it's entirely based on streeetcar-type service. Some proposals are glaringly supposed to be subways. I think downtown was deliberately omitted from the proposal because anything short of a new subway line is inconceivable to rational critics.

As for Jane and Don Mills, I don't see these as viable LRT nor subway lines in entirity, but rather BRT routes. Don Mills Proper (the area from Thorncliffe Park to Don Mills Centre) could conceivably be encompassed via an Eglinton line S-bahn. Dead-ending new TC lines at BD is indeed silly, BRT however ingeneous.
 

CDL.TO

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As for Jane and Don Mills, I don't see these as viable LRT nor subway lines in entirity, but rather BRT routes. Don Mills Proper (the area from Thorncliffe Park to Don Mills Centre) could conceivably be encompassed via an Eglinton line S-bahn. Dead-ending new TC lines at BD is indeed silly, BRT however ingeneous.

How would an Eglinton S-Bahn work?

Don Mills is high frequency and has bus lanes already, in any other city it would have been called a BRT already. All it's lacking is marketing.
 
N

notyouagain

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"When the St Clair line gets extended to Kipling, it will have to be in mix also as there is no room there now."

Drum, where did you hear this from?
 

RedRocket191

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Drum118, anything you can share as to what may be added to Transit City? I think it has the potential to be a great network, if the LRT is built correctly and if a few glaring omissions are corrected: most notably the complete ignoring of the entire city south of Bloor.

It seems awfully logical that the proposed Jane and Don Mills lines be extended underground into the core--what the hell do the TTC's planners think southbound passengers on Don Mills will be trying to do? Get souvlaki at Pape and Danforth!? Throw in those two extensions (and link them up) and you've got a real network.

According to Steve Munro's conversations with planners, the idea is to eventually run the Don Mills and Jane LRT into the core, which would essentially be the downtown relief line.

There have been proposals to convert the Junction bus to streetcar in the past, and i think that redevelopment in Lambton and Etobicoke's new downtown will bring the ridership.

What I would like to see is 512 St. Clair extended to Scarlett Road & Dundas (on the other side of the bridge from where St. Clair ends), 540 Junction Streetcar to meet it there, and the Mississauga-Dundas LRT extended from Kipling to connect with those two lines.
 

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