Second_in_pie
Senior Member
Those numbers include the CBD for Bloor though, do they not?
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Transit City Plan
- Thread starter 299 bloor call control.
- Start date
nfitz
Superstar
If I remember correctly from looking in the Eglinton EA document, the highest demand is west of Eglinton West station. It stands to figure that most of those people would take the stubway. But not all, which is why the longer route has 30% more riders than the stubway. But that still is only barely over 5,000. I don't see how this is counter-intuitive. This has been studied to death by people more qualified than both of us.
nfitz
Superstar
Your kidding right ... your basing density around the Eglinton line on population from Dupont to 401? What happened to the old 5-minute walking standard?
You folks question years of highly detailed demand modelling, and replace it with a simple analysis of population from Dupont to 401? And yet you question those who do the work professionally?
I'm just shocked at the gall!
Fresh Start
Banned
Residents south of the 401 most definitely would use the Eglinton Line. Depending on what happens along Finch, a sizable number from Steeles southwards could also utilize Eglinton as their primary east-west RT route. Even at St Clair there might be more incentive to travel counter-flow towards Eglinton than through flow traffic towards the Bloor-Danforth. It stands to reason that one-third to close to one-half of all present day north-of-Bloor N-S bus users would transfer at Eglinton in order to catch a seat on YUS prior to the bottlenecks at St George and Bloor-Yonge.
You keep telling the civic engineers that volunteeringly donate their time to posting here that our figures are insubstantial because we're not under the employ of the biased and corrupt TTC, but tell us, how are their consultants arriving at the figure 5400 ppdph? Where's their chain of evidence, or are you a hypocrite?
You keep telling the civic engineers that volunteeringly donate their time to posting here that our figures are insubstantial because we're not under the employ of the biased and corrupt TTC, but tell us, how are their consultants arriving at the figure 5400 ppdph? Where's their chain of evidence, or are you a hypocrite?
Rainforest
Senior Member
Yes. Wards 20, 27, 28 encompass the CBD.
Really, they are in YUS corridor rather than Bloor corridor. People can travel there using either Bloor or Eglinton (and transferring to YUS).
Rainforest
Senior Member
This was not my calculation (SimonP's), but I mostly agree with it. I would set the southern boundary of the Eglinton corridor halfway between Eglinton and St Clair, but the northern boundary even further north (at Finch in the west and at Sheppard in the east).
The 5-minute walking standard is totally irrelevant for the subway ridership calculation. Obviously, the majority of Eglinton subway riders would come from feeder buses; this the case for Bloor as well.
I believe that they are qualified in math. However, the output of any model depends greatly on the input assumptions. Rules for choosing those assumptions are quite loose.
Fresh Start has a good point here: if you put so much trust in that 5400 ppdph max figure, then you should disclose the details of the modeling.
SlickFranky
Active Member
I'm pretty sure the densely populated portions of St Clair will continue to use the 512 to get to the YUS. Why would they take a bus, transfer, and transfer again. Same goes for Finch (depending on implementation). The whole 'to get a seat' argument makes no sense either if your trying argue how busy those new transfer points will be.
nfitz
Superstar
Corrupt TTC?
Why the slander?
Well, that discredits anything you have, and ever will say!
BTW, what on earth is a civic engineer? ROTFLMAO!
Go stick the tin foil hat back on.
Fresh Start
Banned
They'll be busy, but as Eglinton's not downtown transfer points won't be nearly as congested as the B-Y interchange. The counterflow arguments works if you live blocks north of St Clair and require a bus transfer to head south. Also, how is a 6 km long streetcar line comparable to a 30-35 kilometre long crosstown RT route?
nfitz
Superstar
What has math got to do with it? Hopefully they are qualified in other things.
What do you mean loose. Surely whatever is done would make sense, or one wouldn't be able to calibrate it.
Why do you think I have the details of the modelling? However the various models done over the years don't seem to differ significantly ... that's always the best test.
Unless your willing to sit down and do proper transport demand modelling to check various assumptions, I really don't think anyone here should be pulling vastly different demand numbers out of their imagination.
Fresh Start
Banned
It's no secret that the TTC has a bias towards light-rail expansion. So if they tweak the numbers in that mode's favor, then yes they are being corrupt. It's not slanderous to say that.
Oh, and if it wasn't abundantly clear that I meant civil but wrote civic by mistake, perhaps it is you that needs to take stock of your conspiracies.
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nfitz
Superstar
What? What on earth would that, even if true, have to do with corruption. Do you even know the meaning of the word?
Corrupt (adjective) 1 - influenced by or using bribery or fraudulent activity; 2 - morally depraved
It wasn't clear at all. In all my years as a civil engineer I have never heard that before. So you are saying you have civil engineers who are posting here, saying the TTC numbers are wrong? Who are we talking about here; because as a civil engineer, I haven't seen anything to make me think they could be out by a power of 2.
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SlickFranky
Active Member
For Eglinton they also include NYCC, SCC, most of YUS, Sheppard, Finch, St Clair, etc. Many (if not most) of the denser areas will not be Eglinton-bound.
Fresh Start
Banned
"corruptness: lack of integrity or honesty; use of a position of trust for dishonest gain"
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
I wouldn't go as far as suggesting bribery.
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
I wouldn't go as far as suggesting bribery.
nfitz
Superstar
But you have implied it, by using an obscure reference to justify the use of the word corrupt, that differs from any Canadian English definition. One might say that is corrupt!
But back the the main question here. What Engineer here is your source for questioning those demand numbers?