Voltz
Senior Member
Obviously, that was not during rush hour, so that observation was not a valid comparison between a LRT line and future conditions on a bus line during rush hour.
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Transit City: Finch-Sheppard Corridor
- Thread starter Rainforest
- Start date
kEiThZ
Superstar
That wasn't rush hour.....
RedRocket191
Senior Member
Try Finch West at the height of the AM rush and I guarantee you'll come to a different conclusion.
Of course you're going to find clear sailing at 11AM.
Rainforest
Senior Member
Well, 11AM is not a representative time point. Try 8AM or 5.30PM, the bus will be quite a bit slower.
scarberiankhatru
Senior Member
Try Finch East at any time of day and you're unlikely to find the bus slowed down by any significant amount due to traffic. Finch East has less traffic now than it did 10 years ago. Despite the 39's high ridership and high bus consumption, I don't see much of a need to spend a billion dollars on Finch East.
Like pretty much everywhere else in the western half of the GTA, Finch West has worse traffic than Finch East and a ROW will be useful. Even though I support that Transfer City line, I'll be the first to admit that while the need to improve transit on Finch West is pressing, the need to replace the Finch West bus is far from pressing, particularly since the route will soon be split by the Spadina extension that could theoretically improve its reliability and actually will slash the peak load sizes (which will then, hopefully, rise due to future development and modal shifts).
Like pretty much everywhere else in the western half of the GTA, Finch West has worse traffic than Finch East and a ROW will be useful. Even though I support that Transfer City line, I'll be the first to admit that while the need to improve transit on Finch West is pressing, the need to replace the Finch West bus is far from pressing, particularly since the route will soon be split by the Spadina extension that could theoretically improve its reliability and actually will slash the peak load sizes (which will then, hopefully, rise due to future development and modal shifts).
toraerach
Active Member
I am usually quite supportive of LRT proposals when they make sense, but this is just plain stupid. You cannot take one number and say that no matter what the choice of technology in that corridor is, that number will stay the same. Is that "mere 6100 per hour" a projection for a STC-Downsview subway, a mix of subway and LRT, an uninterrupted LRT line, or the status quo?
Each option will have a dramatically different projection, and even these can be way off. For example, if the LRT gets overcrowded too early in its lifetime, it won't be as attractive to new riders and may drive old users away. If a subway/LRT split remains, people might be put off due to the transfer (although I do think there are ways of making the transfer as seemless as possible) and the neighbourhoods along the LRT's route might not encounter the same amount of intensification. Then again, if the full subway is built and the city does not zone for more density, it really wouldn't be worth it anyways. If the B-D line gets extended to STC, there is again another variable that could attract more riders. Maybe the nice condos they're marketing today will end up being overcrowded lower-income neighbourhoods in 20 years. It's just all so hypothetical, especially in an area like this that is urbanizing. It's hard for me to believe any one ridership projection.
Plus, the Metrolinx projection is based on a completed network with frequent GO service to downtown - will that happen? Will fare integration attract people to GO?
I think when it comes to a major transit decision like this (downgrading capacity), you have to look beyond 25 years. I really do not want to see in my lifetime the construction of the Sheppard subway, it's subsequent downgrade to LRT, and later it's reconstruction as a subway line.
It's really infortunate that the city is going to force this LRT through first when there are less controversial corridors (like Finch-West) that could show us what a TC line looked like and how it affected development in its area. We could have made an informed decision on how we'd like to proceed with Sheppard instead of picking a side and hoping for the best.
I would certainly hope that they do not do the conversion right away, but allow the LRT to co-exist with the subway for a while before making any rash decisions about its future. I am not against LRT, but I am against stupidity and spending money to downgrade is just ridiculous. It's like getting married and buying a nice three bedroom house, knocking it down and building a smaller one bedroom, then later having two or three kids all packed in there with you. It just doesn't make sense to me.
scarberiankhatru
Senior Member
It doesn't make sense to you because, well, it doesn't make sense.
Dan416
Senior Member
Maybe it doesn't make sense because it just DOESN'T MAKE SENSE???
Now can we all agree and knock some sense into the TTC already? Over 80% of those who voted in my Sheppard Subway poll answered finishing the line to STC was preferable to doing nothing, LRT east of the subway or downgrading the entire thing to LRT.
My only question is WHY IS THE TTC SO BLOODY STUPID? If even lesouris thinks it's a stupid idea, it MUST be a stupid idea
Now can we all agree and knock some sense into the TTC already? Over 80% of those who voted in my Sheppard Subway poll answered finishing the line to STC was preferable to doing nothing, LRT east of the subway or downgrading the entire thing to LRT.
My only question is WHY IS THE TTC SO BLOODY STUPID? If even lesouris thinks it's a stupid idea, it MUST be a stupid idea
taal
Senior Member
Sorry, where does it show that the TTC is purposing converting the sheprard subway to an LRT ?
RedRocket191
Senior Member
Check the documents from the latest Metrolinx meeting... www.metrolinx.com. It is one of several possibilities for the Finch & Sheppard corridors. Others include various combinations of subway extensions and LRT construction.
unimaginative2
Senior Member
Various combinations of subway extensions, but of course finishing the line as it was originally intended isn't even being considered.
hkric88
Active Member
You can bet steve munro has got a hard-on over this...
DavidH
Senior Member
I don't see any indication that a conversion of the existing subway to LRT is being considered. It's true that one of the scenarios is an extension of the subway from Downview to Consumer's Road, but there is no scenario that goes the other way and removes the subway.
The information that was leaked at the beginning of September had a conversion, so this may be where the idea is coming from - but nowhere in the release documents - so far as I can see - does the idea come up. Or am I missing something?
RedRocket191
Senior Member
http://www.metrolinx.com/Docs/1/Board/Oct24/ISP 08-012 Benefits Case Update.pdf this document shows the following possibilities:
Base Case: Business as usual, bus service
Feasible Options:
• Option 1: Separate routes (as per Transit City plan)
• Option 2: Continuous corridor via Sheppard West
• Option 3: Continuous corridor via Finch East and Don Mills
• Option 4: Sheppard subway extension west to Downsview and east to Consumers Road, LRT for remainder of corridors
Option 2 (continuous corridor) could potentially be light rail technology or subway technology.
DavidH
Senior Member
I suppose. It's an extrapolation based on very terse writing, but it is not inconsistent with what was written.