Richmond Hill Yonge Line 1 North Subway Extension | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[denfromoakvillemilton]

A DRL from Union to Danforth would only appeal to the people in the core. The City's DRL study last year even showed that there would be very minimal relief, and the number of transfers from Bloor to Yonge would actually go up in 2031 when it was projected to open. Those taking the Yonge and Danforth subways sense that it will not do much for them.

If it is extended north, then Scarborough, North York, Markham, Richmond Hill, as well as old Toronto, would all support it.

The DRL should go to Eglinton (both ends) and that's all...

 

[Adjei]

Updated Benefit Case from Metrolinx:

http://www.metrolinx.com/en/regiona...enefits_Case-Yonge_North_Subway_Extension.pdf

 

[M II A II R II K]

Metrolinx Benefits Case Analysis for the Richmond Hill Subway

http://stevemunro.ca/?p=8637

......

- Notable by its absence is an option of both a full subway line to Richmond Hill and improved GO service or any analysis of how demand would divide between the two routes.

- Major work is required elsewhere on the YUS to handle the additional pedestrian traffic at busy stations. Bloor-Yonge and St. George are heavy transfer points, but there are other stations where passenger volumes have difficulty clearing the platform between trains (especially if one path is blocked by, say, an out of service escalator). Additional entrances/exits are essential that are truly useful to many passengers, not merely a convenience for a minority of travellers (e.g. Yonge Station, west end). During the PM peak at shorter headways, passengers will arrive at the BD line in greater numbers than they do today unless these transfer trips are diverted to other routes, but even with additional platform capacity (itself a challenge) more trains will be needed on BD.



.....

 

[Transportfan]

With the Bloor-Danforth east extension now coming to the front burner, along with the DRL needing to be built first, it will be a looooong time before Yonge gets extended now.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

With the Bloor-Danforth east extension now coming to the front burner, along with the DRL needing to be built first, it will be a looooong time before Yonge gets extended now.

Not necessarily. The DRL will be complete in 2024. Even if they were to begin planning today, construction for the Yonge extension wouldn't be done till at least 2024.

 

[Adjei]

Not necessarily. The DRL will be complete in 2024. Even if they were to begin planning today, construction for the Yonge extension wouldn't be done till at least 2024.

According to who?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

According to who?

No need to speculte about the Yonge and DRL timlines. Metrolinx has this handy chart:

So it looks like Yonge will open two years before DRL.

 

[Adjei]

We don't have funding for any of those plans. In order for it to even open in that timeframe, the funding would need to be in place now.

 

[innsertnamehere]

That is of course if Metrolinx gives funding for the yonge extension before the DRL, they could easily just delay by 2 years to allow for the DRL to open.

 

[nfitz]

So it looks like Yonge will open two years before DRL.

Yonge is 6 to 9 years total while the Relief Line is 11 years. However we are what, about 1-year into the Relief line Design/EA process and about 3 years into the Yonge extension Design/EA process? So (if fully funded now), Yonge could open in 3-6 years and Relief line in 10. That would be 4-7 years before the DRL, not 2.

Though presumably they'd simply hold off on the Yonge extension for several years until the DRL is ready to start construction.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Yonge is 6 to 9 years total while the Relief Line is 11 years. However we are what, about 1-year into the Relief line Design/EA process and about 3 years into the Yonge extension Design/EA process? So (if fully funded now), Yonge could open in 3-6 years and Relief line in 10. That would be 4-7 years before the DRL, not 2.

Though presumably they'd simply hold off on the Yonge extension for several years until the DRL is ready to start construction.

There is no way that Yonge is opening in three years, even if it were funded today. There isn't a single shovel in the ground. I'd say a realistic timeframe for Yonge would be five to seven years from now and the Relief Line in nine to ten.

We don't have funding for any of those plans. In order for it to even open in that timeframe, the funding would need to be in place now.

Funding will be coming soon. When the next provincial budget is passed. And planning work has already begun on both lines.

That is of course if Metrolinx gives funding for the yonge extension before the DRL, they could easily just delay by 2 years to allow for the DRL to open.

They'll give funding to both at the same time. Just have work on Yonge progress a little slower. Funding DRL before Yonge could very well be political suicide.

 

[Adjei]

Funding will be coming soon. When the next provincial budget is passed. And planning work has already begun on both lines.

The NDP who the Liberals need to pass the budget since the Conservatives won't support it have already rejected the funding tools. Why do you think Wynne formed the panel to further study Metrolinx tools? The current proposals dont have support. So unless the NDP hop on board, I don't see any funding coming. You talk as if the funding for these projects is already in place. Between these two projects, you need at least $10 billion dollars and that's not even for the full buildout of the the DRL. We don't have 1 cent of that money in place.

 

[xtremesniper]

I think the benefits case analysis update provides an interesting point...

2.52 - However, with the implementation of the Eglinton-Scarborough Crosstown, the rapid transit network will have new interchange stations that will provide alternatives to Bloor-Yonge station. This will assist in dispersing the high volume of passengers using this station and provides the opportunity to defer the need for major capital investment in expanding the Bloor-Yonge station capacity. While the Yonge-Bloor capacity constraint is potentially resolved, a new constraint is also created at Yonge-Eglinton station, which will need to be considered as the Eglinton-Scarborough Crosstown is designed and constructed.

The crosstown is something I think people forget will also serve as a way of getting traffic off of the Bloor-Yonge interchange.

Metrolinx Benefits Case Analysis for the Richmond Hill Subway

http://stevemunro.ca/?p=8637

......

- Notable by its absence is an option of both a full subway line to Richmond Hill and improved GO service or any analysis of how demand would divide between the two routes.

- Major work is required elsewhere on the YUS to handle the additional pedestrian traffic at busy stations. Bloor-Yonge and St. George are heavy transfer points, but there are other stations where passenger volumes have difficulty clearing the platform between trains (especially if one path is blocked by, say, an out of service escalator). Additional entrances/exits are essential that are truly useful to many passengers, not merely a convenience for a minority of travellers (e.g. Yonge Station, west end). During the PM peak at shorter headways, passengers will arrive at the BD line in greater numbers than they do today unless these transfer trips are diverted to other routes, but even with additional platform capacity (itself a challenge) more trains will be needed on BD.



.....

Huh... Interesting that he says that when I see this in the benefits case:

2.57 Acknowledging the aforementioned challenges, the Downtown Rapid Transit Expansion Study (DRTES) looks at capacity deficiencies in the longer term. The Study examines future travel trends on transit in the GTA and assesses the alternative strategies for long term capacity relief, including:
I Construction of a new subway line (commonly referred to as the Downtown Relief Line (DRL)), which would divert riders on the Yonge line travelling south of Bloor to reduce crowding and allow for future growth;
I Improvements in streetcar services to enhance shorter-distance transit accessibility in the downtown;
I Fare, service and other policy initiatives to increase downtown transit ridership that may be appropriate; and
I Construction of additional GO Rail capacity specifically to offload the Yonge subway by:
 Diverting Toronto and York Region residents currently using the Yonge subway to Barrie, Richmond Hill and Stouffville GO; and
 Diverting Toronto residents currently using the Bloor-Danforth line to GO Lakeshore East and West.

Notably the point regarding additional GO Rail capacity on the Barrie, Richmond Hill and Stouffville GO lines.

2.61 Prior to the Electrification Study, in June 2010, Metrolinx reported BCAs for GO Rail improvements to address short-term capacity issues. The Richmond Hill line was a part of this assessment that proposed an extension to the existing GO line north from Richmond Hill to Bloomington and increased service to all-day, 2-way service from the current four inbound and five outbound in the morning and afternoon peak periods, respectively.

2.64 As a parallel route, the GO Richmond Hill line is a potential option for providing some off-load transit capacity for the Yonge corridor north of Steeles. At this time however, with the current fare structure, the GO service may not divert a significant number of riders from the subway.

EDIT: I now see that what he really means is that despite the project options having full subway OR partial subway with GO expansion, none of the options are for both simultaneously. I'm sure this is because of funding reasons and not because they didn't think of it.

 

[M II A II R II K]

In the mean time they should divert Yonge trains to Lower Bay and transfer there, whilst both Bloor/Yonge platforms are expanded.

 

[Tulse]

In the mean time they should divert Yonge trains to Lower Bay and transfer there, whilst both Bloor/Yonge platforms are expanded.

My understanding (largely from reading Steve Munro) is that it is simply not possible from an engineering standpoint to expand Bloor/Yonge any further -- there are several rather large and heavy buildings all above it in the area, and very complex utilities lines running through. That's one of the main reasons why the DRL is so needed, because nothing more can really be done at B/Y.