Ansem
Banned
right....
Because a DRL to Eglinton (both side) and Sheppard to STC wouldn't relieve the Yonge line at all so that you guys from York could use the Yonge line without penalizing Torontonians living near Yonge.
God we're selfish...
Richmond Hill Yonge Line 1 North Subway Extension | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx
- Thread starter 299 bloor call control.
- Start date
right....
Because a DRL to Eglinton (both side) and Sheppard to STC wouldn't relieve the Yonge line at all so that you guys from York could use the Yonge line without penalizing Torontonians living near Yonge.
God we're selfish...
Ansem
Banned
Hear, Hear!
The Yonge Extension to Richmond Hill will not kill Richmond Hill Go. The way it's going currently, it will kill itself. Right now, frequencies are horrible and peak-hour, making the system very unreliable and unattractive. When you put on top of that the fact that Go fares are more expensive than YRT fares, and you'll probably have to take the TTC on the last leg of your trip anyways, it's much more economical to either take Viva Blue to Finch, then take the subway. Either that, or just drive to Finch station and save $3. Put on top of that stack the fact that the Go train is none too speedy with it's slow, diesel locomotives and relatively heavy carriages.
Unless Go/Metrolinx addresses these problems, RH Go will die on it's own. If they do address these issues, RH Go will be the perfect express option for people taking N-S trips.
Go will adress them. Go has a lot of potential. I'm impressed with what Langstaff will look like. Building a subway on maybe is not money wisely spend...
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Chuck
Senior Member
This comment is not necessary. There is not a single person on this board that disagrees with you. Everyone wants a DRL. However, we are also supporting the Yonge extension because in addition to being a worthy project, why penalize York for being the only municipality that correctly recognized that the subway is the only true backbone of transit in the GTA?
We're not selfish, we're foolish for electing a mayor that chose streetcars over the 75km of subway that could have been built for the same cost. We all want a DRL, so you can stop pushing it here. Focus your energy on city council instead.
Ansem
Banned
Some believe that automated trains, new trains and new signal alone will fix everything. I was being sarcastic over it. In my sarcasm I kind of made the point that the whole package is needed to make it work so that everyone would be happy. I'm even said that Richmond hill drawings were impressive.
Some believe the extension to York should happen without DRL. I have the right to disagree with that.
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Second_in_pie
Senior Member
I'll explain it for him.
The thing that you have to remember is that a lot of the enormous ridership on Finch will be displaced across the other stations on the extension. This means two things. First of all, it doesn't mean that a totally new wave of commuters will suddenly pop up to use the line. A majority of the people that are already at Finch right now will just be using other stations on the extension.
Second of all, a short turning train at Finch actually will be good for those living south of Finch. With the bulk of Finch's ridership taking trains further up on the line, it means that every other car will be relatively full of those commuters. The empty train short turning at Finch will mean a train exempt from the current crush loads at Finch originating from Steeles and York Region. With these commuters basically out of the picture, it will mean that you'll probably be able to get a seat on every other train until Sheppard, and after that every other train will still be noticeably less crowded than the Highway 7-originating trains.
The extension will attract new riders, that enough is true. It's the reason the DRL is needed. But it's one of the things that's good about a subway extension, and we shouldn't be avoiding new riders because one of our lines are at capacity (we should be displacing the riders elsewhere.) But several of you are acting like there currently aren't any riders at Finch that come from York Region, and when the subway is extended, the masses will suddenly come flooding in and kill the line. In truth, over half of the riders at Finch come from York, and a subway extension will give those riders a significantly better service that is needed badly.
Second_in_pie
Senior Member
Don't forget an evolved Go system in that backbone!
I agree with you. But I have a comment. The people that are disagreeing with the Yonge Extension are saying that it will eat up space for precious riders that are actually on Yonge. Now, why aren't you telling people that take the Sheppard Subway or Finch to Yonge to GTFO and use the Go Train as well?
kEiThZ
Superstar
The DRL would be a reliever. But Sheppard to STC could well add riders to Yonge. As would all the LRTs soon to be connected to Yonge. Those will generate far more new ridership than the extension which will simply spread out most of today's Finch ridership along a bunch of new stations between Finch and RHC.
I would suggest that the DRL should be built before any of the Transit City LRTs. However, I strongly disagree that the Yonge extension would add so much new ridership that it would overwhelm the line. The line is crowded today. The extension would only add marginally to that. Holding the Yonge extension hostage so that the DRL can get built (which should have happened any way) is a terrible 'beggar thy neighbour' approach which makes no sense. That extension will be needed sooner or later. If the funds and political will is there to build it, then do it. Don't wait for some other project with our own city council did not deem a priority. You want to be mad at someone. Be mad at Miller. Don’t penalize the Yorkies for the poor voting choices (he did get re-elected after proposing TC) of Torontonians.
xtremesniper
Active Member
The YRT is basically forfeiting fares to the TTC north of Steeles. Anyone riding the subway in York Region zone will be paying a TTC fare. I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the TTC is benefiting from the fare box sales in this area, not YRT.
It's pretty simple. There is no empty train leaving from finch every 2 minutes. I have a feeling you haven't rode the Yonge line every morning in the dead of rush hour for a year before, have you?
When a train arrives at Finch, it dumps its passengers. If scheduling is going according to plan (which surprisingly, it usually does), there has been another train on the opposite side of the platform (which by now is getting full) that closes its doors and proceeds south. At this point, the train that had just arrived begins loading passengers.
This cycle repeats every 2-3 minutes. So, for example, another train will come into the platform 2 minutes after the other train has left, and then the train that had been sitting there for a few minutes will now close its doors and leave.
Does this make sense?
Where in this scenario is there time or space for a completely empty train to depart southbound from Finch? Exactly. It doesn't happen.
So, my point is that with the extension people south of Finch will benefit from the fact that a completely empty train will be traveling for them, and trust me (please, I'm not talking out of my ass here. I've been riding the Yonge line during rush hour for too long) the volume of traffic at any station south of Finch is not nearly as significant as the ridership AT Finch.
As you go south, North York Center may add a few people to each car, and Sheppard will load in a significant amount of people, but unless there was a delay, everyone will make it aboard. South of that, York Mills and Lawrence have ridership but nothing too significant. Eglinton is where some people may or may not get left behind, but most of the time plenty of people leave the train at this station. This makes more room in the train for those getting on, therefore so far everyone has been getting on the train okay. Davisville has pretty good ridership, St. Clair does as well, but Summerhill and Rosedale are joke stations. Bloor is where half the train leaves, and then gets reloaded with more people.
Again, provided that there has been no delays so far, everyone will get on.
My point here is, with the current system nobody gets a completely empty train from Finch unless something has happened that causes a train to short-turn.
I believe you aren't reading my post correctly. I did not say anywhere that the TTC was unconditionally fine with the extension. What I said was that there is a significant difference in their support of the extension when compared to their reaction when the idea first came around some time ago. And no, the DRL is not a requirement by the TTC. Only the Bloor-Yonge renovations are.
Hopefully that clears things up?
Thank you, I didn't see your post before writing this one.
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EnviroTO
Senior Member
If GO Transit has 30min services on all its lines with integrated fares a lot of riders would switch. Someone getting on at Leslie station to take the subway downtown would use GO instead if there was service there to use, perhaps even without integrated fares. Simply bringing all day GO bus service to the GO stations in the city that don't have it could divert some traffic. A non-stop trip from Oriole station is much more tempting than a trip on the Sheppard and Yonge lines.
xtremesniper
Active Member
Agreed. There is no way in hell I'm going to pay anything remotely near $10 for a round trip to anywhere in the city. It's why so many people go out of their way to avoid double fares, or multiple transit services. Going from GO to Union when you need to get to Dundas (for example) means at least two different fares. And if you use YRT to get to a GO station, add another 50 cents per direction on that. (granted, I'd rather pay 50 cents than $3.25, so kudos to YRT and GO for working together on that).
GenerationW
Senior Member
He proposed a vague version of TC in his '06 campaign, but let's be honest -- the main reason he got re-elected because he faced a weak opponent.
I want to stress that at the final Eglinton LRT open house last month, Giambrone stated that he doesn't support the Yonge extension. I can't remember much in the way of official pronouncements on this project lately, so I have to ask: Does he have enough pull to get his way, or will York Region's will win out?
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kEiThZ
Superstar
York region will win because they and the province are footing the bill. It's remarkable. They are paying for the extension and the TTC is collecting the fares. The extension will also save Toronto money on road maintenance and bus services on Yonge. Save some concern about congestion (which I think has been adequately addressed for at least the next decade), the extension has lots of benefits for Toronto.
hkric88
Active Member
lead82
Senior Member
I believe York will win this fight as they have the political power to get shit done, unlike Toronto, who has weak leaders that have poor leaders that can't request federal stimulus funding properly.
If a fall election occurs, I know for a fact that the Thornhill MP Peter Kent supports the subway and will be able to convince Harper to fund it to get elected in the 905 area, that would definitely get the Tories votes in Thornhill and Richmond Hill and probably Vaughan and Markham as well, since he can claim the funding for VIVA also.
And who knows, it may even convince North Yorkers to vote Tory to get the subway extension past Steeles, since many people live in North York and work in York Region.
If a fall election occurs, I know for a fact that the Thornhill MP Peter Kent supports the subway and will be able to convince Harper to fund it to get elected in the 905 area, that would definitely get the Tories votes in Thornhill and Richmond Hill and probably Vaughan and Markham as well, since he can claim the funding for VIVA also.
And who knows, it may even convince North Yorkers to vote Tory to get the subway extension past Steeles, since many people live in North York and work in York Region.
Woodbridge_Heights
Senior Member
As a fellow York Regionite perhaps you could help me understand why a subway was 'chosen' for improved transit in the region rather than something like say GO or LRT's? The new subway extensions barely break into the southern portion of York Region in areas that currently have no local demand for a subway. People will still have to take transit or their car to the subway station. What of the people in Northern York region? How do you think people living in King City or Keswick feel about paying for a subway that they'll likely never use.
The numbers (particularly for the Spadina extension) do not bear out the type of ridership that demands a subway, but York wanted a subway and had to find a way to justify it. All the development around VCC and RHC in the past had been big box and non transit friendly. Ironic how suddenly York saw the light of sustainable development right around the same time that they began petetioning for a subway.
I'm not saying a subway to RHC is wrong but GO improvements should have been looked at first.