Richmond Hill Yonge Line 1 North Subway Extension | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[innsertnamehere]

its early in the study, they have to look at essentially everything regardless how stupid so that when some (rather uninformed) citizen suggests it during the consultations they have something to reference to say why they aren't doing that. I can bet you a lot of money people are going to be suggesting express trains on yonge. its also a yonge relief study, integrating yrt fares would do nothing to relieve the line, if anything it would make it worse.

 

[ehlow]

Really interesting to see "lower off-peak fares" listed as one of the options on slide 11. I'm surprised I haven't heard of this as a suggestion on these forums before. I think it's a great idea to encourage ridership even when there is less traffic around.

Then I go further and I see "express service on Yonge subway" and I start to think they're just throwing out random absurd ideas without thinking about feasibility. Same goes with "LRT through Don Valley" as if that will service anyone more than the existing GO trains do.

Also extremely disappointed that they still keep going on about TTC and GO fare integration without talking about TTC and YRT fare integration. How are they going to deal with the influx of York U students who are going to refuse to pay to transfer onto the subway once Viva Purple stops servicing the campus?

Lower off peak fares would make it more financially viable to do daily errands & small trips by transit for those who don't have a metropass, similar to the time based transfer idea. Since the trains are running not full anyways, it could be financially beneficial to the TTC as well.

As innsertnamehere said, they likely need to state why something like Yonge express isn't viable. Many people don't understand why.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I'm glad to see a Don Mills Rapid Transit line on the long list. I've been waiting for this option for Yonge relief to be studied for a while.

 

[xtremesniper]

its also a yonge relief study, integrating yrt fares would do nothing to relieve the line, if anything it would make it worse.

True. I got carried away. But I know that even if this document was for the general network, it still wouldn't be mentioned. They just refuse to talk about it.

 

[innsertnamehere]

My understanding is that Metrolinx is currently trying to work it out exactly because of the Spadina line.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

Really interesting to see "lower off-peak fares" listed as one of the options on slide 11. I'm surprised I haven't heard of this as a suggestion on these forums before. I think it's a great idea to encourage ridership even when there is less traffic around.

Then I go further and I see "express service on Yonge subway" and I start to think they're just throwing out random absurd ideas without thinking about feasibility. Same goes with "LRT through Don Valley" as if that will service anyone more than the existing GO trains do.

Also extremely disappointed that they still keep going on about TTC and GO fare integration without talking about TTC and YRT fare integration. How are they going to deal with the influx of York U students who are going to refuse to pay to transfer onto the subway once Viva Purple stops servicing the campus?

It's definitely on their radar. The mere fact they're having public meetings in Toronto and York Region shows they know where the problem is at. Things like this give me some confidence Metrolinx can still be what we need it to be. Lord knows the TTC would never do anything like this, taking the whole region and the whole network into account.

 

[gweed123]

I find it quite interesting in that document that they didn't once attach the word "subway" to the solution for relief. Hopefully they aren't beginning with the assumption that it needs to be a TTC Subway. I would like to see a head-to-head comparison of the benefits and drawbacks of using the Relief Line as a TTC Subway vs as a GO REX (or similar type of operation) tunnel.

I would suspect the TTC is starting with the assumption that it will be a TTC Subway, I just hope that Metrolinx isn't as well. It will be very interesting to see what the end result will be if the TTC and the Metrolinx studies, which are happening more or less in tandem, come up with different recommendations, beyond just minor alignment differences.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

I find it quite interesting in that document that they didn't once attach the word "subway" to the solution for relief. Hopefully they aren't beginning with the assumption that it needs to be a TTC Subway. I would like to see a head-to-head comparison of the benefits and drawbacks of using the Relief Line as a TTC Subway vs as a GO REX (or similar type of operation) tunnel.

I would suspect the TTC is starting with the assumption that it will be a TTC Subway, I just hope that Metrolinx isn't as well. It will be very interesting to see what the end result will be if the TTC and the Metrolinx studies, which are happening more or less in tandem, come up with different recommendations, beyond just minor alignment differences.

Yes, because the TTC's focus (understandably, I guess) is getting people off the one subway line, so it can run more efficiently. Metrolinx's concern is having people be able to move around the region, recognizing Yonge as a major corridor and a major problem. since it's the TORONTO Transit Commission, maybe it's too much to ask that the TTC take a more holistic view but I'm happy Metrolinx is there to do it. Whether they have the ability to put the right solution into effect is another matter but I looked at that slideshow and thought, "Here's a group of people looking at the whole issue, start to finish," and then I see the TTC who have only prioritized the DRL because of the Yonge extension and the attention it drew to their capacity shortfalls and think..."Gee, maybe we should be uploading the TTC." It's not that I think the TTC needs to be uploaded so much as that they are too big and cumbersome to move when we're trying to patch holes in problems that often start and stop beyond the 416 borders. Metrolinx doesn't have those hang-ups.

 

[xtremesniper]

It's definitely on their radar. The mere fact they're having public meetings in Toronto and York Region shows they know where the problem is at. Things like this give me some confidence Metrolinx can still be what we need it to be. Lord knows the TTC would never do anything like this, taking the whole region and the whole network into account.

Yeah, well unfortunately even if the TTC itself wanted to care about anything north of Steeles, the Toronto citizens would go up in arms about how the TTC's mandate is to service Toronto proper and nothing else.

Been there done that. We all know that kind of attitude is what is holding the GTA back, but nonetheless it's a big problem.

So yes, if you ask me I think Metrolinx either needs more power and control over regional agencies to make things jive, or they need to just take over provided they have a good plan to service both local and regional needs, which I believe is possible to do under one umbrella entity. The longer you keep these agencies separate, the more red tape and negotiation that has to happen to get any cooperation.

 

[jaycola]

Yeah, well unfortunately even if the TTC itself wanted to care about anything north of Steeles, the Toronto citizens would go up in arms about how the TTC's mandate is to service Toronto proper and nothing else.

Toronto treats Steeles as it's ass end rather than a gateway to the city. The avenue's study failed to even address Steeles even though it is among the highest traveled routes in the GTA, has an abundance of land prime for redevelopment and abuts a huge percentage of Toronto's employment lands.

Had the city boundary been Hwy 7 rather than Steeles, I assume they would have at least considered it for intensification.
http://urbantoronto.ca/news/2013/12/6-storey-wood-framing-key-unlocking-torontos-avenues

 

[gweed123]

Yes, because the TTC's focus (understandably, I guess) is getting people off the one subway line, so it can run more efficiently. Metrolinx's concern is having people be able to move around the region, recognizing Yonge as a major corridor and a major problem. since it's the TORONTO Transit Commission, maybe it's too much to ask that the TTC take a more holistic view but I'm happy Metrolinx is there to do it. Whether they have the ability to put the right solution into effect is another matter but I looked at that slideshow and thought, "Here's a group of people looking at the whole issue, start to finish," and then I see the TTC who have only prioritized the DRL because of the Yonge extension and the attention it drew to their capacity shortfalls and think..."Gee, maybe we should be uploading the TTC." It's not that I think the TTC needs to be uploaded so much as that they are too big and cumbersome to move when we're trying to patch holes in problems that often start and stop beyond the 416 borders. Metrolinx doesn't have those hang-ups.

The TTC and Metrolinx have had disputes in the past about the role a certain line should play, but in the case of Eglinton, the LRT plan (Transit City) pre-dated even the existence of Metrolinx. This is really the first time that they're going to be producing studies about a piece of infrastructure in tandem with each other. I just hope that Metrolinx doesn't cave and we end up with a line that ignores regional implications because it's easier for the TTC to implement it that way.

 

[gweed123]

Toronto treats Steeles as it's ass end rather than a gateway to the city. The avenue's study failed to even address Steeles even though it is among the highest traveled routes in the GTA, has an abundance of land prime for redevelopment and abuts a huge percentage of Toronto's employment lands.

Had the city boundary been Hwy 7 rather than Steeles, I assume they would have at least considered it for intensification.
http://urbantoronto.ca/news/2013/12/6-storey-wood-framing-key-unlocking-torontos-avenues

This is why municipal boundaries that lie along a roadway are a PITA. When the boundary is a natural feature (like Etobicoke Creek in the west or the Rouge River in the east) it's much easier to delineate. Unfortunately, there's no such easy delineation marker north of Toronto.

 

[Johnny Au]

...and a line just north of Steeles Avenue is Toronto's boundary, not on Steeles Avenue itself.

 

[gweed123]

...and a line just north of Steeles Avenue is Toronto's boundary, not on Steeles Avenue itself.

True, but my point still stands. As far as planning goes, I think it's easier for a municipality to have a natural feature as a boundary as opposed to just an invisible straight line laid across the land.

 

[innsertnamehere]

The 407 or CN bypass could be a good boundary.