BurlOak
Senior Member
I thought Hudak wanted to strengthen Metrolinx by giving them the subways and the GTA highways.
Richmond Hill Yonge Line 1 North Subway Extension | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx
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I thought Hudak wanted to strengthen Metrolinx by giving them the subways and the GTA highways.
TJ O'Pootertoot
Senior Member
What is Tim Hudak if not consistent and full of ideas! I have his actual urban white paper here...my recollection is that he would upload those things TO THE PROVINCE but disband Metrolinx (which, like the LHINS etc., is just another place for the Liberals to overpay people who do nothing). how would he run regional transit without Metroilnx? Stop asking so many questions!
From the White Paper:
We believe in a substantial expansion of public transit, starting with putting all rail-based transit and major highways in the Greater Toronto Area and Hamilton
under one provincial agency so that there is finally one body in charge of breaking gridlock, not a dozen.
Commuters would have, for the first time, a system where all the pieces connect. We would demand better value and better customer service.
Despite that call for "one provincial agency," the word "Metrolinx" appears nowhere in the document.
This document, written by the Progressive Conservative Party of Ontario, also refers to the Sheppard subway as a "stump," which makes me want to punch them, I must admit. Back in October he said..."If something is just out there as some arm of government for propaganda and not achieving a purpose for jobs, we should shut those things down," apparently in reference to them (http://www.thestar.com/news/queensp...ontario_could_spell_the_end_of_metrolinx.html) and he definitely pledged to ditch them in the last election but, maybe I'm misreading his totally clear intentions and he's come around? Maybe he just wants to remake it in his own image? Either way, I don't have a lot of faith.
EDIT: To add this Steve Munro post that fairly captures my perception of Hudak's view of Metrolinx:
http://stevemunro.ca/?p=6804
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TOareaFan
Superstar
The most recent presto readers installed at College station accept taps from either Visa cards or Presto Cards.
rbt
Senior Member
IIRC only the Bank of Presto gets a token fare; every other bank gets a cash fare.
TOareaFan
Superstar
It is true....if you pay VISA you pay the cash fare if you pay Presto you get the discount. This seems appropriate to me.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Anyone who believes that Metrolinx is our transit saviour and that uploading all transit to the province is deluding themselves. They'll be eating their words when the PCs get in power and begin pushing their transit agenda forward, which very likely includes privatization.
In my opinion the Province's role should be limited to funding and coordinating the various transit agencies in the GTHA. Them actually owning local bus/streetcar/LRT/subway routes is an incredible encroachment on municipal/regional jurisdiction. Nobody in Timmins deserves to dictate how a local Toronto bus/streetcar/LRT/subway route is run and is actually a dangerous policy (if a PC gov't were to be elected). I think Steve Munro said it best (quoted below). If the province ever expresses a desire to take control of our subways/LRT, Toronto absolutely needs to fight off this encroachment from "Big Brother".
Of course, this doesn't get to the real issue. The problem is that the we have set municipal government gives the Province far too much power and influence over our larger municipalities (mostly Toronto). We have cities that are larger than most provinces that are mere "creatures of the Province [Ontario]". As Toronto and the GTA grow in size & influence, we're going to see increasingly vicious conflicts between the [largely] rural Province of Ontario and the highly urban City of Toronto. Unfortunately for Toronto, the Province will always have the upper hand in these conflicts. I believe that we're seeing this manifest in the PC desire to take our subways out of our control.
The solution to this is for Toronto to politically distance itself from the Province by limiting the power that Ontario can wield over the city. I'd like to see the power for the Province to make decisions of municipal importance without approval from the City killed. The days of Toronto being a "creature of the Province" will be over. Never again will Big Brother be able to make a decision on behalf Toronto that residents are firmly against. And the PC dream of uploading our roads and subways and [lets not kid ourselves] privatizing them will be dead. I'd also like to see Toronto gain more control over taxation within the city. These are things that should have happened a decade ago.
As the city quickly approaches 3,000,000 people, I'd hope that we'd find ways to politically distance ourselves from Ontario and limit their powers over the City to an even greater extent than what I've outlined above.
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Johnny Au
Senior Member
There are plans to make Toronto her own province. I believe that as a start, Northern and Southern Ontario should split, with Southern Ontario retaining the Ontario name and Northern Ontario becoming Keewatin.
TOareaFan
Superstar
I have seen internet chatter about this.....but calling it "plans" is a stretch. Which of the 3 political parties has this as part of their platform?
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
A little drastic? This is about limiting the powers of our [at times] slightly overbearing province (regarding municipal-provincial relations). Not full on abandoning it.
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TJ O'Pootertoot
Senior Member
Well, we could debate governance models all day long. You don't have to read a lot of literature to find that a strong, unified regional authority is the key to successful regional transit (and planning regime). It kind of goes without saying. That's also a totally separate issue from Hudak and the damage he is likely to inflict, with or without Metrolinx.
Munro is a very smart guy but also very Toronto-centric. To get back to this thread a little bit, Toronto, for all its booming, is not where most growth is taking place in this region. And speaking of straw men and red herrings, Metrolinx is a GTHA agency so Timmins has nothing to do with anything. (I could also be really contrarian and point out that if you want them to pay for transit in TO, maybe they should get a say!)
All that said, Metrolinx ALREADY owns Viva's bus lanes. And, for that matter, YRT contracts service out to Veolia. I don't think anyone knows. I don't think anyone cares. I don't think there is 1 of the 1 million+ people in York Region (including the 20+ members of regional council) who consider it "an incredible encroachment on municipal/regional jurisdiction."
To go back to my contrarian Timmins point, if the province is going to give some municipality billions of dollars and use Infrastructure Ontario to leverage the financing etc., it's hardly a ridiculous request that they own it. You could argue it either way but calling it "an incredible encroachment" when they're the ones funding it is almost (but not quite!) as nutty as the suggestion there are actual plans for Toronto to secede; where did THAT come from? The same people who want to de-amalgamate? And people wonder why nothing gets done in Toronto [shakeshead].
(I know it wasn't you who said that...)
I'll tell you with the problem with this idea is In three words: Toronto, Toronto, Toronto. You ignore that Toronto is surrounded by 3 million suburbanites. It's damned fair to argue cities should have more power and no longer be "creatures of the province," get out from under the OMB etc. etc. etc. But when you treat Toronto as an exception you miss the whole problem. Treating cities as little isolated blocks where someone drew a line when Queen Victoria was on the throne is not how things get done in the 21st Century. You have to look at the urban region. It's not even debatable, in my opinion.
You also demonstrate a fundamental misunderstanding of the governance situation. The city doesn't "give" the province any powers at all. The only power the city has is power that the province, in its grand munificence, has seen fit to give it. You're right that it's antiquated but let's be clear on what's going on.
As it stands, the City of Toronto Act already gives Toronto special treatment and its largely been squandered by the immaturity of its citizenry (See: Ford, Robert; election of; vehicle registration tax...) so the idea that Toronto (as opposed to the GTA or even the GTHA) is some special case is both wrong and even insulting, in my opinion. It's a good way to (to come back on thread) ensure that projects like this extension never gets built and that sprawl continues to crush everything around it, while Toronto goes about its merry business, passing illusory 1.75% tax increases and funding subways using monopoly money.
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andrewpmk
Senior Member
I don't agree with this. Much of our problems with transit relate to incompetent municipal politicians coming up with strange transit plans and then repeatedly changing them, i.e. building an extremely expensive light rail line on Eglinton that is not grade separated, putting two incompatible types of rail on Sheppard, trying to change those two to subway and then back again, and the McCowan Road subway. If Metrolinx had been in charge, they probably would have insisted in building the DRL first, forcing Miller to make Eglinton grade separated, and pushing GO expansion. Toronto city council is too dysfunctional right now for them to make transit decisions that are remotely intelligent. The whole issue of Steeles Avenue also causes a lot of problems.
Johnny Au
Senior Member
Yes, Toronto should be given more powers and be able to shape its own destiny. I meant to say in a few decades' time.
Rainforest
Senior Member
Once the city has more inhabitants than the rest of the province, and elects more MPPs than the rest of the province, it will effectively have the opportunity to change any provincial legislation.
TOareaFan
Superstar
A really trite (but real) example that Toronto already has its own special act and powers happened today......Toronto was the only municipality in the province that was able to grant establishments the right to open and sell alcohol outside normal hours today for the Olympic Hockey final. Every other municipality in the province would have needed he government of Ontario to make that decision (unlike other provinces, they did not) but Toronto's act allowed them to act alone. I am not well enough versed in the act to know all the powers that the Toronto act gives the city that others don't but there is special treatment for Toronto relative to other cities/towns.