Richmond Hill Yonge Line 1 North Subway Extension | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[jaycola]

Here it is: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/43869799/GO REX v5.jpg

Gweed. Can you add in the Viva BRT?

I think the Yonge extension looks no less obvious in your terrific plan. Great job.

Maybe there are ways to use discount pricing to divert more passengers from the subway? Just make it cheaper to get to Union from Richmond Hill by Go train.
The development potential along this extension is by far the greatest simply because of the availability of large parcels. The strip plaza is a great redevelopment site. The Plaza in Thornhill, where Minto is building Watergarden was a horrid structure. Add to that the first couple of houses. I don't really know how many houses were knocked down.
WaterGarden-(Yonge-St-amp-Arnold-Ave-Minto-6s-P-S)?p=618379#post618379
Adding something like this to the community instantly increases Walk scores throughout the area. There are huge swaths of land close to Yonge between Cummer and Major Makenzie which are prime for redevelopment and the demand appears to be there.
Richmond hill is a narrow community and there any many large buildings already., Thornhill on Yonge is fairly dense too. there is a lot of potential to urbanize more.

Yonge St will continue to urbanize all the way up to Newmarket, as it should. We have a main street and we should treat it that way.

 

[Dan416]

they lose no peak lanes. It goes from 2+Bus HOV to 2. sure they lose some sunday lanes, but they aren't really needed then anyway.

Eglinton is so damn wide and overbuilt for cars that it wouldn't hurt to lose a couple of lanes.

6 lanes is completely manageable for a street. 6 lanes plus lrt lanes plus bike lanes not so much as that requires a double cycle pedestrian crossing. (looking at you highway 7)

This all may be true. But you know that's not how it's going to be seen by drivers and Rob Ford.

 

[salsa]

This all may be true. But you know that's not how it's going to be seen by drivers and Rob Ford.

Why should we pander to these people? They will never be satisfied with anything other than underground transit, which they don't plan to use anyway.

 

[sixrings]

This all may be true. But you know that's not how it's going to be seen by drivers and Rob Ford.

well thank god Rob Ford is going to be arrested and no longer will be Mayor.

 

[CityPlaceN1]

^ Arrested?

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

^ Arrested?

Ha ha! There are suggestions of the Ford thread that police have him on several counts and are working with the crown to make sure he's nailed 100% before moving in but that something is definitely happening.

Really, it seems like only a matter of time until Ford invades every thread and UT explodes.

I think Jaycola's got the idea. If you drive north on Yonge you can really see exactly where the intensification potential is (especially if you read the Vaughan/Markham secondary plans for Yonge). I'd only quibble it shouldn't urbanize all the way to Newmarket, because of the Oak Ridges Moraine. Having it solidly urbanized up to about Elgin Mills and then tailing off around Lake Wilcox seems a more reasonable plan. Then it can pick up again in Aurora, peaking in Newmarket. But, yeah, whenever people complain the extension would be leaving Toronto and TO taxpayers will have to subsidize it etc. I advise people to look at the satellite view of Yonge/Steeles in Googlemaps. There is no discernible border there and, especially with World on Yonge on the skyline, I think it's fair to say the north side of the border is actually urbanizing faster now.

I don't know about discounting GO but once there is a new system (be it zones, fare by distance or something else) it will be easier to structure prices so two parallel lines are priced accordingly. Personally, if I was going to Union or the financial district I think it would be worth the extra couple of bucks to go on GO during rush hour. If I was going to the ACC on the weekend, I'd probably be more likely to take the subway. But, really, if too many transit options at Yonge/7 is the biggest problem we have, we'll be doing OK.

 

[jaycola]

I think Jaycola's got the idea. If you drive north on Yonge you can really see exactly where the intensification potential is (especially if you read the Vaughan/Markham secondary plans for Yonge). I'd only quibble it shouldn't urbanize all the way to Newmarket, because of the Oak Ridges Moraine. Having it solidly urbanized up to about Elgin Mills and then tailing off around Lake Wilcox seems a more reasonable plan.

Not my intent to ignore the Moraine lands. Where already developed, property along this stretch should be allowed and encouraged to improve but remaining undeveloped moraine lands should be strenuously protected.

Developing the GTA to the north with Yonge as it's spine is a no brainer. Remember the urban plan for the Greater Golden Horseshoe put forth under "Places to Grow".

The majority of York Region's future growth will be within the thin strip surrounding Yonge Street. Providing the necessary transit connections for these new residents and communities should be the goal.

 

[BMO]

This all may be true. But you know that's not how it's going to be seen by drivers and Rob Ford.

Anecdotal evidence from my mom suggests she will lose her shit if TTC decides to run buses on those two lanes once the LRT is in place. You're reducing driver's ease of being able to turn left because of the LRT and if you add the fact that potentially local buses will be sharing lanes with drivers instead of using a dedicated commuter lane, this is where people start feeling lied to and attacked. I think a lot of people feel the same way, and it's definitely because you're not making their commute any better(since they commute by car), at least not apparently. I'm not sure what % of people in the suburbs use transit, but I'm sure it's quite lower than car usage. Unless you can have marketing that shows that yes an LRT actually improves your commute because it shifts drivers onto transit, you can't really blame these people for being upset. I think most drivers don't have a problem with getting buses off our streets and replacing them with LRT, it's the fact that it's perceived as replacing buses with LRTs at their expense.

 

[Johnny Au]

Not my intent to ignore the Moraine lands. Where already developed, property along this stretch should be allowed and encouraged to improve but remaining undeveloped moraine lands should be strenuously protected.

Developing the GTA to the north with Yonge as it's spine is a no brainer. Remember the urban plan for the Greater Golden Horseshoe put forth under "Places to Grow".

The majority of York Region's future growth will be within the thin strip surrounding Yonge Street. Providing the necessary transit connections for these new residents and communities should be the goal.

Off-topic: How did the Finger Lakes grow to the size of a Great Lake?

 

[gweed123]

Gweed. Can you add in the Viva BRT?

I chose to stick with only rail-based transit on the map, because then I would need to add in the Mississauga Transitway, and the Durham and Dundas BRTs. My full map though does have those, and I'm working to update it with my updated GO REX system (a few minor tweaks needed compared to what I have now). I just wanted to keep it uncluttered and focused on the GO REX lines.

I think the Yonge extension looks no less obvious in your terrific plan. Great job.

Maybe there are ways to use discount pricing to divert more passengers from the subway? Just make it cheaper to get to Union from Richmond Hill by Go train.
The development potential along this extension is by far the greatest simply because of the availability of large parcels. The strip plaza is a great redevelopment site. The Plaza in Thornhill, where Minto is building Watergarden was a horrid structure. Add to that the first couple of houses. I don't really know how many houses were knocked down.
WaterGarden-(Yonge-St-amp-Arnold-Ave-Minto-6s-P-S)?p=618379#post618379
Adding something like this to the community instantly increases Walk scores throughout the area. There are huge swaths of land close to Yonge between Cummer and Major Makenzie which are prime for redevelopment and the demand appears to be there.
Richmond hill is a narrow community and there any many large buildings already., Thornhill on Yonge is fairly dense too. there is a lot of potential to urbanize more.

Yonge St will continue to urbanize all the way up to Newmarket, as it should. We have a main street and we should treat it that way.

I have no doubt that the Yonge extension will still eventually be needed, I'm just saying that if this GO REX plan were being implemented, I would like to see that money go towards the Richmond Hill GO REX + dedicated BRT lanes on Yonge instead of the Yonge Subway.

What I'd like to see is a zone fare system that costs the same amount regardless of what mode you take. If you're taking a bus to RHC, and you have the choice between a GO REX train that arrives every 4 mins vs a subway train that arrives every 4 mins, and cost is equal, I'd choose the one that would get me there the fastest, which would clearly be the GO REX.

And thanks!

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pd...14_BoardMtg_Yonge_Relief_Network_Study_EN.pdf

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pd...14_BoardMtg_Yonge_Relief_Network_Study_EN.pdf

You should have posted what it is - which is very interesting: Metrolinx starting a plan to take pressure of Yonge sooner rather than later. It's a good thing they're doing it to, since I see no inclination the concept is much on Toronto's radar, unless you count their belated start on the DRL and that crucial subway they're building in Scarborough.

I knew they were working on this but not the timeline. Once they do this they can build the Yonge line before the DRL, eh?

 

[kEiThZ]

Although it's not well articulated in the media I think that most people including in the suburbs don't really understand what LRT means. But how LRT has been sold to them is "mass transit that displaces road lanes". On the other hand to them subway means "mass transit that does not displace road lanes". I feel that suburbanites aren't against LRT, they are against the concept of LRT or BRT or any other transit initiative that displaces road lanes. This to me is one of the fundamental marketing errors and miscalculations of Transit City. If LRT were planned to layer on top of the existing road network by say using other corridors, grade separated (above or below grade level) etc. there would not be this level of opposition. I'm not advocating for this solution, just pointing out my understanding of the mood of the people.

Honestly, I feel that this is a misconception that some have of suburbanites because of Rob Ford and his "war against the car" propaganda. Talk to suburbanites. Most don't care as much. Sure, they do care about traffic. But they also care about transit. And most can see the tradeoff. Especially since many of them also take transit to/from work or school. It's not as clear cut as some think it is. And this is exactly the kind of talk that I was referring to earlier. People have all kinds of assumptions about what suburbanites want and care about. Few have actually bothered talking to them though.

Indeed, on places like Sheppard, losing a lane would seem like a bizarre idea. Look at Sheppard past McCowan, plenty of room for the LRT and the same or even more car lanes. There will be no loss of lanes on Sheppard East. So where does this idea come from that suburbanites fear lane loss? Certainly not from the burbs.

 

[xtremesniper]

I've gotten into more than a few debates with pro-car suburbanites about streetcars vs LRTs and whatnot. Everyone is intensely misinformed, and if we're to trust the media to clarify any of this then we're in for a world of pain.

 

[xtremesniper]

http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pd...14_BoardMtg_Yonge_Relief_Network_Study_EN.pdf

Really interesting to see "lower off-peak fares" listed as one of the options on slide 11. I'm surprised I haven't heard of this as a suggestion on these forums before. I think it's a great idea to encourage ridership even when there is less traffic around.

Then I go further and I see "express service on Yonge subway" and I start to think they're just throwing out random absurd ideas without thinking about feasibility. Same goes with "LRT through Don Valley" as if that will service anyone more than the existing GO trains do.

Also extremely disappointed that they still keep going on about TTC and GO fare integration without talking about TTC and YRT fare integration. How are they going to deal with the influx of York U students who are going to refuse to pay to transfer onto the subway once Viva Purple stops servicing the campus?