Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

andrewpmk said:
So the Presto fare to Pearson isn't going down at all? $38 to go to the airport and back is outrageous. Will continue taking the 192.
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I guess we don't know for sure, but since there's a lot of detail about the cash fare and the stops within the city, and zero mention of Presto price from Union to Pearson (and vice-versa) I'm guessing you're right that it will remain at $19.00. Which I think is a mistake. Enough people weren't paying $19.00 before, why would they suddenly start? Also there's no incentive to buy a Presto card just for this if the fares are the same.

The GO fares within the city is cool, and I think that will boost ridership within the city, but all I see that meaning is a bunch of people will cram in at Union leaving no seats for people paying $19.00 to the airport. Everyone will empty out at Bloor or Weston, and it will remain as empty as it is today going on to Pearson. Then they can say they had X number of riders and it's now a success, even though the exact same amount of people are(n't) taking it to the airport.

I mean, at least those people within the city riding it makes SOME use of it. I say make it 10.00-12.00 each way with Presto (i.e. double the doubled inter city price of $6.00) and I'll take it, otherwise I'll be sitting with you on the 192 Rocket.
 
ndawgg said:
The GO fares within the city is cool, and I think that will boost ridership within the city, but all I see that meaning is a bunch of people will cram in at Union leaving no seats for people paying $19.00 to the airport.
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There is no evidence that this is the case though. The same fare is available on GO trains now between those stops and the ridership level is very low even for the peak trains which run at average frequencies not all that different from UP (WB evening peak GO trains leave, on average, every 22.5 minutes and only a small number of passengers get off at Weston and an even smaller number get off at Bloor). It removes the perception that UP is a fat cat service built when nothing is being done for the regular guy....but I doubt strongly that this will overflow every UP train to the point no airport passengers can get on.
 
TOareaFan said:
There is no evidence that this is the case though. The same fare is available on GO trains now between those stops and the ridership level is very low even for the peak trains which run at average frequencies not all that different from UP (WB evening peak GO trains leave, on average, every 22.5 minutes and only a small number of passengers get off at Weston and an even smaller number get off at Bloor). It removes the perception that UP is a fat cat service built when nothing is being done for the regular guy....but I doubt strongly that this will overflow every UP train to the point no airport passengers can get on.
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Building upon that point, i.e. there probably won't be a major influx of ppl travelling to bloor/weston, is the working theory that the fare to the Airport will still be $19? I don't think this would change overall ridership that much... but maybe if the fare to the airport was something with less sticker shock like $12.50.
 
ottbike said:
Building upon that point, i.e. there probably won't be a major influx of ppl travelling to bloor/weston,
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to be clear...I think it is a good idea what is proposed...I think using the excess capacity while UP ridership ramps up to offer some local service and learn some lessons about future/potential ReR ridership makes sense....I just don't see it being used by so many people that it will over run the service and discourage ridership from full fare (whatever that is) paying airport riders.
 
I say lets wait until an official announcement is made before we continue down this road of speculation. All we know that MAY happen is a reduction of the base fare, nothing more
 
Come join Steve Del Duca tomorrow for his special announcement that everyone already knows about.

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Apparently even at GO fares it still won't satisfy the good citizens of Toronto... here are the top reader comments responding to the Globe article, kind of sad reading these:

"What a farce, why on earth could they not price it right from the start ?? At 50% off it'll still be too much."
"The project aren't created for US, BUT for others."
"It will still cost me and inconvenience me (time) to get from my house to Union Station (back tracking) or Weston so that i can take a still expensive train. Oh i forgot, how do i get to the subway with minimum 8 pieces of luggage and 3 family members. Honestly, I wouldn't do that schlepp even if tickets were free."
"Even if it was free, I would not take it, as I live in the east end of Toronto, and it is still easier to get to the airport by limo."
"A $5.00 cut in the price is not going to have much effect. Got to get the price under $10.00."

In other words, Metrolinx should just run UPX for free and offer free connection to TTC. Oh and throw in free soda and peanuts along the way. And while we are at it, a free upgrade to Air Canada International Business Class.
 
SFO-YYZ said:
Apparently even at GO fares it still won't satisfy the good citizens of Toronto... here are the top reader comments responding to the Globe article, kind of sad reading these:

"What a farce, why on earth could they not price it right from the start ?? At 50% off it'll still be too much."
"The project aren't created for US, BUT for others."
"It will still cost me and inconvenience me (time) to get from my house to Union Station (back tracking) or Weston so that i can take a still expensive train. Oh i forgot, how do i get to the subway with minimum 8 pieces of luggage and 3 family members. Honestly, I wouldn't do that schlepp even if tickets were free."
"Even if it was free, I would not take it, as I live in the east end of Toronto, and it is still easier to get to the airport by limo."
"A $5.00 cut in the price is not going to have much effect. Got to get the price under $10.00."

In other words, Metrolinx should just run UPX for free and offer free connection to TTC. Oh and throw in free soda and peanuts along the way. And while we are at it, a free upgrade to Air Canada International Business Class.
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No one is saying it should be free. They're saying the station location at Union is so inconvenient that it isn't worth it for most people to use, even if it was free. I wouldn't want to drag my luggage 400m between the TTC platform and the UP Express platform. Just staying on the TTC is easier, so I wouldn't take it if it was free either (not that it should be free).
 
LNahid2000 said:
No one is saying it should be free. They're saying the station location at Union is so inconvenient that it isn't worth it for most people to use, even if it was free. I wouldn't want to drag my luggage 400m between the TTC platform and the UP Express platform. Just staying on the TTC is easier, so I wouldn't take it if it was free either (not that it should be free).
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Honest question...but is the 400m luggage drag at Union not offset by whatever the luggage drag at Kipling is plus the slightly longer distance to (most) gates at Pearson from the bus stop as compared to the UP station?

Whenever I used the subway/rocket combination I don't recall it being a totally smooth trip with luggage either.
 
LNahid2000 said:
No one is saying it should be free. They're saying the station location at Union is so inconvenient that it isn't worth it for most people to use, even if it was free. I wouldn't want to drag my luggage 400m between the TTC platform and the UP Express platform. Just staying on the TTC is easier, so I wouldn't take it if it was free either (not that it should be free).
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Fair enough. As a counterpoint, I find the station location at Union convenient and have no problem carrying my luggage--I carry it way, way farther than that elsewhere along my travels, ditto for when I walk from my Condo to YTZ through the pedestrian tunnel. I take the 509 to Union, so I'd most certainly rather not stay on the TTC for anywhere from 1.5-6 hours depending on subway delays and 427 traffic, including an uncomfortable bus on which I'm likely to get neither a seat nor a place to put my luggage, and instead take the UPX.

One of many benefits of living in a free country is that you're welcome to enjoy the TTC to the airport, and I'm welcome to enjoy the UPX. I enjoy it a great deal at $19, and provided that the fare decrease doesn't result in a scarcity of seats, I'll enjoy it even more now.
 
TOareaFan said:
Honest question...but is the 400m luggage drag at Union not offset by whatever the luggage drag at Kipling is plus the slightly longer distance to (most) gates at Pearson from the bus stop as compared to the UP station?

Whenever I used the subway/rocket combination I don't recall it being a totally smooth trip with luggage either.
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The Kipling luggage drag is more like 20m between the bus platform and the escalator. At the airport, I can just use a luggage cart. Way easier, especially with the construction at Union Station.

Megaton327 said:
I take the 509 to Union, so I'd most certainly rather not stay on the TTC for anywhere from 1.5-6 hours depending on subway delays and 427 traffic, including an uncomfortable bus on which I'm likely to get neither a seat nor a place to put my luggage, and instead take the UPX.
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Exaggerating travel times as usual. 6 hours...seriously? Also, the buses have luggage racks, I've always gotten a seat, and have rarely experienced traffic on the 427.
 
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Question (that has something to do with how the media reports on this service/line)....I keep reading that since launch it has "been running over 90% empty".....is that even true? Are they just comparing the capacity assuming 3 car trainsets running all day to actual ridership or are they actually comparing the number of seats that have been made available to the ones used? It does not change the ridership numbers but there is a difference between 10% of capacity and 10% of actual available seats....no? If I am reading this right it is like the way they continually push the message that a current one way fare is $27.50. I think, honestly, they have been fighting a bad rap from the media on this since day one.
 
Thank all of you who confirmed the fact that catenary subways were common in the world..........I was starting to think I was the only one who had ever heard of them.

This is a good start but only a start, The "discount" of Presto must also include the same discount for Metropass holders or people who bought a ticket to get to the station.

The next major step will be to include a new stop at Etobicoke North. It would serve an area of the city that is in drastic need of transit connection but also serves a long term goal. By adding EN station on UPX, they could get rid of Weston GO altogether. Westoners could now take far more frequent UPX to get downtown or to Pearson and for those needing to take GO they would take UPX north and transfer at EN.

This has 2 large benefits, it speeds up GO service considerably { and save a lot on fuel costs as it's the stops and starts that drink the gas} allows a vastly expanded UPX platform at Weston.
 
ssiguy2 said:
The next major step will be to include a new stop at Etobicoke North. It would serve an area of the city that is in drastic need of transit connection but also serves a long term goal. By adding EN station on UPX, they could get rid of Weston GO altogether. Westoners could now take far more frequent UPX to get downtown or to Pearson and for those needing to take GO they would take UPX north and transfer at EN.
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If I was a resident near Weston (I am not) I would ask why build EN into a UP/GO station and ask Westonites to travel to EN to access GO when you already have a GO/UP station and EN users can always use GO to transfer at Weston?
 
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