Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

We have to remember that RER is not just about serving Torontonians better but also people in the 905. RER/ST should not only help Torontonians but also making GO trips MUCH faster by getting rid of many of the infill stations that will now be served by RER/ST.

What they should do is extend the "UPX" to alternating to Maton. One train leaves every 15 minutes to Pearson and the other to Malton and the Malton train should have an extra stop at HWY #27 to serve Humber. This would get rid of EN station for GO and Bloor station as well.

What you would end up with is all GO service stopping at Malton and then a non-stop to Union. Anyone wanting to get anywhere in Toronto except Union would transfer at Malton onto the UPX/ST line. Again, this would allow the UPX to take over EN station making a much longer and higher capacity UPX train both easy and very cheap.

Even if UPX can't handle any longer than 4 subway cars at the platform that fine as the other trains can still be longer.

By extended half of all UPX trains to Malton, it becomes an interchange station for anyone not going to/from Union. It would make GO MUCH faster and cheaper to run and would provide service to other poorly served areas now, It would allow UPX/ST to take over EN, Weston, Bloor and eventually Eglinton and Liberty Village so by using those longer platform, UPX trains could be greatly and very cheaply extended.

This serves Torontonians much better but 905ers will love it too. Imagine leaving Brampton and having only one stop at Malton and then cruising non-stop to Union.
 
TOareaFan said:
Question (that has something to do with how the media reports on this service/line)....I keep reading that since launch it has "been running over 90% empty".....is that even true? Are they just comparing the capacity assuming 3 car trainsets running all day to actual ridership or are they actually comparing the number of seats that have been made available to the ones used? It does not change the ridership numbers but there is a difference between 10% of capacity and 10% of actual available seats....no? If I am reading this right it is like the way they continually push the message that a current one way fare is $27.50. I think, honestly, they have been fighting a bad rap from the media on this since day one.
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Well, 130 seats in a 2-car train, 16 hours of service a day x 4 trains, is 16,400 actual seat-trips per day vs 2,400 passengers per day in December. There is variability over the day so no single % is truly representative. But yeah, we're talking about actual empty seats rather than theoretical available seats that weren't needed.

Whether the number is precisely 90% or some other number (2400/16400 = 85% empty) is moot, it's much higher than expected.

Rightly or wrongly, the media seldom stays balanced about risk taking in the public sector, especially once the facts turn sour. The fare structure might have been based on solid analysis, but it involved risk. Reminds me of Charlie Brown - I"f I catch this, I'm the hero, but if I drop it, I'm the goat." There's no in between.

- Paul
 
crs1026 said:
Rightly or wrongly, the media seldom stays balanced about risk taking in the public sector, especially once the facts turn sour. The fare structure might have been based on solid analysis, but it involved risk. Reminds me of Charlie Brown - I"f I catch this, I'm the hero, but if I drop it, I'm the goat." There's no in between.

- Paul
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But it never was. Lavalin walked away from the P3 because it never made sense, but McGuinty and his team pressed on. Metrolinx's own consultant reports strongly hinted that the ridership forecasts were fantasy, but still they pressed on. And they handed Metrolinx the unlimited chequing account that brought us to where we are today. And whether fares come down and the trains fill up or not, nobody's head seems to be rolling for any of that.

But hey, free WiFi, right?
 
LNahid2000 said:
Exaggerating travel times as usual. 6 hours...seriously? Also, the buses have luggage racks, I've always gotten a seat, and have rarely experienced traffic on the 427.
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6 hours - given a severe subway delay causing cancelled service at the height of rush hour, waiting for shuttle buses to be ordered and arrive, waiting for room on one, and trudging through rush hour traffic, then taking the 192...seems roughly accurate, if a bit on the low side. Of course that's not typical, but MUCH more likely to happen in my experience than UPX delays.

I've taken the 192 exactly twice, going and coming back--going there I got a seat and placed my luggage but it filled up very quickly afterwards and there WERE standees; coming back I actually waited for a full bus to go by at Pearson, waited another ~10min, and had to stand on the second one.

427 traffic - clearly you're an infrequent traveller. It's jammed much of the day, every day, and is frequently immobilized. A very unpredictable option for getting to pearson.

Again, you're allowed to take the TTC. I won't stop you. But I much prefer enjoy a comfortable ride, with practically-guaranteed comfortable seating+luggage space, and practically guaranteed travel time. On that note I am aware there have been a couple of UPX delays causing 1h-1h30min travel times, but in addition to being very uncommon I'd happily take a 1h30min trip to Pearson than a 4-6 hour one in a worst case scenario for either service.
 
SFO-YYZ said:
Apparently even at GO fares it still won't satisfy the good citizens of Toronto... here are the top reader comments responding to the Globe article, kind of sad reading these:

"It will still cost me and inconvenience me (time) to get from my house to Union Station (back tracking) or Weston so that i can take a still expensive train. Oh i forgot, how do i get to the subway with minimum 8 pieces of luggage and 3 family members. Honestly, I wouldn't do that schlepp even if tickets were free."
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Maybe rethink the amount of luggage and/or get a ride to Weston instead of assuming you have to take the subway?
 
Megaton327 said:
Again, you're allowed to take the TTC. I won't stop you. But I much prefer enjoy a comfortable ride, with practically-guaranteed comfortable seating+luggage space, and practically guaranteed travel time.
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I guess that's a debate we won't be having anymore! $9 from Union, $5.02 from Bloor! Surely this will fill the trains, right? (And more than double the revenue compared to today, come to think of it.) Good move, Metrolinx.
 
Megaton327 said:
6 hours - given a severe subway delay causing cancelled service at the height of rush hour, waiting for shuttle buses to be ordered and arrive, waiting for room on one, and trudging through rush hour traffic, then taking the 192...seems roughly accurate, if a bit on the low side. Of course that's not typical, but MUCH more likely to happen in my experience than UPX delays.
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6 hours? That's absurd. I've taken the subway to the airport several times - with luggage and two small children.

If things go south, you bail and get a taxi. Things have never gone south.
 
smuncky said:
Wasn't expecting them to drop this low.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2016/02/23/upx-to-slash-fare-by-more-than-half.html

"Fares on the underused Union Pearson Express (UPX) train will as of March 9 be cut by more than half — down to $9 from $19 with a Presto card, or to $12 from $27.50 without one."
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If that's true, the ironic thing is that the train will still be primarily used by those who can afford a premium service, but now it'll be those coming from the West to downtown via. Bloor station who'd rather not "suffer" on the TTC or GO the whole way.
 
nfitz said:
6 hours? That's absurd. I've taken the subway to the airport several times - with luggage and two small children.

If things go south, you bail and get a taxi. Things have never gone south.
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I seriously thought 6 hours was a typo. I can't believe he went on to justify it. I could walk home from the airport in 6 hours.
 
Megaton327 said:
Again, you're allowed to take the TTC. I won't stop you. But I much prefer enjoy a comfortable ride, with practically-guaranteed comfortable seating+luggage space, and practically guaranteed travel time. On that note I am aware there have been a couple of UPX delays causing 1h-1h30min travel times, but in addition to being very uncommon I'd happily take a 1h30min trip to Pearson than a 4-6 hour one in a worst case scenario for either service.
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I'm also allowed to question you when you constantly exaggerate TTC travel times in this thread. I actually use the 427 quite often and have rarely experienced bad traffic south of the airport.
 
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