Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

smuncky said:
Wasn't expecting them to drop this low.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2016/02/23/upx-to-slash-fare-by-more-than-half.html

"Fares on the underused Union Pearson Express (UPX) train will as of March 9 be cut by more than half — down to $9 from $19 with a Presto card, or to $12 from $27.50 without one."
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If true, what a foolish over-reaction. The train will now get crowded during rush and actual airport travelers may start considering cabs instead.

They needed to get it under $20. But $12 (without Presto) and $9 (with Presto) is leaving money on the table.

And this sets a terrible precedent for all the transit we're building. What happens when the public whines about RER fares or new TTC fare by distance.

This is going to turn out as bad as overpricing it. It'll get crowded and still remain unprofitable possibly. They need 14000 riders a day to break even at this price. Imagine this train at peak.
 
Apart from the odd rollover accident, where the OPP shut the whole highway down, I have never seen gridlock on 427. Stop and go, yes, but even at a creep you get there eventually.

The issue isn't so much the absolute travel time as the uncertainty. I have certainly seen people biting their nails because they are worried about how much time it will take them to get to the airport from downtown. But in absolute minutes, the backup for security screening at the airport is just as variable as the highway. I have never felt the same anxiety about the 192.

- Paul
 
Adjei said:
Prices drop...Still complain
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$5.02 to Weston, $4.71 to Bloor - if this is true.

TTCRiders is already whining that's too high for Weston. It's a shame that group has gone so totally wingnut.

At those fares, I'm concerned they won't be able to provide enough service. I'm surprised they didn't look at some peak/off-peak thing - especially for periods where the Weston/Bloor can take frequent GO service.
 
kEiThZ said:
If true, what a foolish over-reaction. The train will now get crowded during rush and actual airport travelers may start considering cabs instead.

They needed to get it under $20. But $12 (without Presto) and $9 (with Presto) is leaving money on the table.

And this sets a terrible precedent for all the transit we're building. What happens when the public whines about RER fares or new TTC fare by distance.

This is going to turn out as bad as overpricing it. It'll get crowded and still remain unprofitable possibly. They need 14000 riders a day to break even at this price. Imagine this train at peak.
Click to expand...
$10 is in line with other airport services in North America. I still won't use it because of convenience, but I like the new pricing. I don't think trains will be overloaded since most people don't live right at Weston or Bloor, and would need to also pay a TTC fare to get where they're going.
 
kEiThZ said:
If true, what a foolish over-reaction. The train will now get crowded during rush and actual airport travelers may start considering cabs instead.

They needed to get it under $20. But $12 (without Presto) and $9 (with Presto) is leaving money on the table.

And this sets a terrible precedent for all the transit we're building. What happens when the public whines about RER fares or new TTC fare by distance.

This is going to turn out as bad as overpricing it. It'll get crowded and still remain unprofitable possibly. They need 14000 riders a day to break even at this price. Imagine this train at peak.
Click to expand...

I was thinking this as well. Its capacity isn't that high to allow all those people during rush or otherwise. But, I guess we'll see.

I wonder if there was any modelling done to get to this figure. Or if it was a just a pull a number out of a bag type deal.
 
smuncky said:
I was thinking this as well. Its capacity isn't that high to allow all those people during rush or otherwise. But, I guess we'll see.

I wonder if there was any modelling done to get to this figure. Or if it was a just a pull a number out of a bag type deal.
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Regardless, raising prices if the line is too crowded is easy to justify.
 
How quickly can they scale up to longer trains?
 
LNahid2000 said:
I seriously thought 6 hours was a typo. I can't believe he went on to justify it. I could walk home from the airport in 6 hours.
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It did take me over 4 hours to get downtown from Pearson once, but that was with me driving. Both the Gardiner and Lakeshore were closed due to a vehicle fire, and it was during rush hour. The drive in was nearly as long as my flight from San Fran!
 
LNahid2000 said:
$10 is in line with other airport services in North America. I still won't use it because of convenience, but I like the new pricing. I don't think trains will be overloaded since most people don't live right at Weston or Bloor, and would need to also pay a TTC fare to get where they're going.
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The underlined statement reflects my thoughts as well. Although a great service for local commuters and at a much more attractive price point, I don't forsee the UPX being overloaded for this precise reason.
 
kEiThZ said:
If true, what a foolish over-reaction. The train will now get crowded during rush and actual airport travelers may start considering cabs instead.
They needed to get it under $20. But $12 (without Presto) and $9 (with Presto) is leaving money on the table.
Click to expand...
Is it really such a foolish over-reaction? The last ridership number released still showed weak demand even with the 2 for 1 promotion going on. They needed to move the needle dramatically. They lowered it a bit more than I expected, but the difference is now that I'm much more likely to take the service for my airport trips. Let's see how it turns out. As demand starts to inch up (it won't be an instant floodgate), they can raise fares a bit to adjust it if it is over crowded.
 
kEiThZ said:
If true, what a foolish over-reaction. The train will now get crowded during rush and actual airport travelers may start considering cabs instead.

They needed to get it under $20. But $12 (without Presto) and $9 (with Presto) is leaving money on the table.
Click to expand...

I'm worried this blocks additional GO service on the Georgetown corridor. Subsidizing 2 competing train services won't fly, and they've now chosen which of the 2 services will be getting the operating dollars.

I can't help but wonder if this option would have been considered if Brampton said yes to their LRT.

On the plus side, we might be able to get rid of the special UPX Presto fare machines at Bloor station. I've tapped the GO machine more than once and had to cancel out.
 
rbt said:
I'm worried this blocks additional GO service on the Georgetown corridor. Subsidizing 2 competing train services won't fly, and they've now chosen which of the 2 services will be getting the operating dollars.

I can't help but wonder if this option would have been considered if Brampton said yes to their LRT.

On the plus side, we might be able to get rid of the special UPX Presto fare machines at Bloor station. I've tapped the GO machine more than once and had to cancel out.
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Gonna have to ask you to explain the thinking behind the bolded part there?
 
Napoleon said:
Is it really such a foolish over-reaction? The last ridership number released still showed weak demand even with the 2 for 1 promotion going on. They needed to move the needle dramatically. They lowered it a bit more than I expected, but the difference is now that I'm much more likely to take the service for my airport trips. Let's see how it turns out. As demand starts to inch up (it won't be an instant floodgate), they can raise fares a bit to adjust it if it is over crowded.
Click to expand...

I live steps from UPX at Bloor and work downtown. I often take the Bloor GO and will now switch full-time to UPX. While ridership from Bloor GO has picked up over last 5-10 years what I have really noticed is the increase in people who get off at Bloor on the Union-bound train (presumably, live in Brampton and transfer to TTC). I think there are more of them than there are people who get on at Bloor to go downtown. There are not enough of us Bloor GO people to overcrowd the UPX, given how frequently it runs. While this fare reduction will presumably switch all those Bloor GO people to the UPX, and perhaps draw some subway riders, the real change will be if they (a) connect the Dundas West subway platform to the UPX station and (2) integrate TTC/UPX fares. Until they do that, I will be one of the lucky few commuting in luxury.
 
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