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sixrings said:
Are there other cities that have dedicated transit lines for their airport from downtown that have intermediate stops?
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It also sort of depends what, specifically, you're talking about. Take London, where you have four international airports (Heathrow; Gatwick; Stanstead; City), and there are multiple ways to get to (some of) them by rail.

One can take the Heathrow Express or regular tube to Heathrow, for instance, and which option makes sense largely depends on your London destination -- the HE terminates at Paddington and the GE at Victoria. The last time I flew into Gatwick my final destination was Southwark, which meant that it was much quicker to take the DLR to Waterloo than to take the GE to Victoria and get down to Southwark via tube or taxi. The DLR was two stops to Victoria and I was in central London from Gatwick in 17 minutes without taking any of London's "airport express" trains.
 
Woodbridge_Heights said:

Airport rail link - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

See section on one seat rides from Airport to City Centre
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i just don't understand. In your link there are countless airports connected via local transit lines with stops. Why in Toronto where we have a lack of public transit are we insisting to have a express only service at the expense of the local Toronto neighborhoods which could use an additional transit line.
 
ADRM said:
It also sort of depends what, specifically, you're talking about. Take London, where you have four international airports (Heathrow; Gatwick; Stanstead; City), and there are multiple ways to get to (some of) them by rail.

One can take the Heathrow Express or regular tube to Heathrow, for instance, and which option makes sense largely depends on your London destination -- the HE terminates at Paddington and the GE at Victoria. The last time I flew into Gatwick my final destination was Southwark, which meant that it was much quicker to take the DLR to Waterloo than to take the GE to Victoria and get down to Southwark via tube or taxi. The DLR was two stops to Victoria and I was in central London from Gatwick in 17 minutes without taking any of London's "airport express" trains.
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Aren't these places which offer express service already substantially covered with local service though?
 
sixrings said:
i just don't understand. In your link there are countless airports connected via local transit lines with stops. Why in Toronto where we have a lack of public transit are we insisting to have a express only service at the expense of the local Toronto neighborhoods which could use an additional transit line.
Click to expand...

You asked for examples where there are Airport to City Centre express services where there are no intermediate stops. I provided the link, read the section on One Seat Rids and note that the article itself mentions that some routes have no intermediate stops and some do... You can click through each service and find the ones that don't have any intermediate stops.

Now you've changed your question to one of why does Toronto have an airport express service. For the same reason Manchester, London, Milan, Bangkok, Beijing, etc, etc, etc do.
 
sixrings said:
Aren't these places which offer express service already substantially covered with local service though?
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They are absolutely, yes: I guess my point was less about pointing out what London is doing that we should immediately try to emulate in Toronto, and more about the fact that it is extremely difficult to compare the GTA to other regions that do not have decades-long public transit infrastructure deficits.
 
Woodbridge_Heights said:
You asked for examples where there are Airport to City Centre express services where there are no intermediate stops. I provided the link, read the section on One Seat Rids and note that the article itself mentions that some routes have no intermediate stops and some do... You can click through each service and find the ones that don't have any intermediate stops.

Now you've changed your question to one of why does Toronto have an airport express service. For the same reason Manchester, London, Milan, Bangkok, Beijing, etc, etc, etc do.
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Sorry I guess I'm making the counter argument to the look at all these other cities are doing we need to do it as well to be competitive argument (I don't know if that's your position but when this thing was first being designed councillors asked for more stops and they were dismissed because that's not how other cities build express lines) I'm not trying to be a contrarian. I really just think this line is a slap in the face to transit riders who are desperate for any new line.
 
sixrings said:
Sorry I guess I'm making the counter argument to the look at all these other cities are doing we need to do it as well to be competitive argument (I don't know if that's your position but when this thing was first being designed councillors asked for more stops and they were dismissed because that's not how other cities build express lines) I'm not trying to be a contrarian. I really just think this line is a slap in the face to transit riders who are desperate for any new line.
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My stance is that it is common for International Cities (particularly those with many international air connections) have some sort of an airport to city centre express rail service. Toronto is an International City and has more international connections than any other airport in North America other than NY JFK. So it is wise to have an airport express service.

That service does not and should not have any bearing on local public transit services (GO Regional Rail, Commuter Rail, Passenger rail, or Subway) other than potentially drawing funds away for other transit. However, that ship has sailed and we can't go back to reallocate those funds to some other project. So let's be happy that we have a convenient express service from our city centre to our airport and continue to pressure our leaders to invest in more public transit, but lets not try to jerry rig this service into some sort of subway or regional rail service.
 
sixrings said:
Sorry I guess I'm making the counter argument to the look at all these other cities are doing we need to do it as well to be competitive argument (I don't know if that's your position but when this thing was first being designed councillors asked for more stops and they were dismissed because that's not how other cities build express lines) I'm not trying to be a contrarian. I really just think this line is a slap in the face to transit riders who are desperate for any new line.
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One has to ask the question a little differently: Is there any other city where the express airport service was built before the same urban area had proper local commuter service?

If we had built RER before UP, nobody would blink an eye at an express airport train. That airport service might stop in a few points, but because those points matter for air travellers. The whole debate would not be contaminated with the need for stops for non-air-travel transit.

If Wynne had not stolen from Georgetown South to expedite UP, this would all be a non-issue.

- Paul
 
sixrings said:
I really just think this line is a slap in the face to transit riders who are desperate for any new line.
Click to expand...

To me, this sentiment really does underscore the scale and harm of the GTA infrastructure deficit and the pervasiveness of that unfortunate reality into many aspects of the regional transit debate; in some ways the express-vs-local aspect of the UPX debate is set up as false choice, because we shouldn't have to choose -- to me, three levels of government should be partnering (or at least supporting and/or not standing in the way of) all of the following:
1. The continuation of an express UPX service using non-GO rolling stock without adding new local stations;
2. The continuation of electrified GO RER with an added significant TOD component at every station where both the surrounding context and resulting network-effect demand can withhold it;
3. In concert with the above, an actually-serious MX-led effort to fix the last-mile solution at major GO stations;
4. An expedited build-out of all of the Toronto-area priority rapid transit projects (scaled back to exclude silly and expensive shit like burying the Eglinton West LRT), plus the Waterfront LRT;
5. A robust dedicated BRT lane implementation strategy for all Toronto bus routes that currently carry more than 20,000 riders per day;
6. A robust dedicated streetcar priority (via grade separation or King St.-esque solution) implementation strategy for some or all of the College, Dundas, Broadview, and Bathurst streetcars;

Many would dismiss the above as unfeasible because of the scale of the cost, which itself again speaks more to the chronic misalignment of mobility-related priorities- and resource-setting that plagues the region than to the inherent practicality of it. (Again, take London for example, which despite already having one of the most robust rail systems in the world is currently wrapping up construction of the CAD $31 billion Elizabeth Line).

But when you break it down, the 6 priorities listed above are in no way out of the realm of financial feasibility: #1 is a continuation of existing service; #2 is a continuation of an existing, largely funded, plan; #3 largely depends on what appropriate last-mile solutions are in each case, but there are many different possible orders of magnitude; #4 is largely funded, and the savings from scaling back some of the projects (and with re-diverting SmartTrack monies) could pay for much of #s 5 and 6.

It's all about prioritization.
 
ADRM said:
3. In concert with the above, an actually-serious MX-led effort to fix the last-mile solution at major GO stations;
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I thought LRT was the last mile solution. For instance if you lived east of agincourt Go station then the Sheppard lrt would have helped. Or hurontario lrt will help my in laws get home from Cookeville go. Or Eglinton lrt which would connect to a number of lines...
 
mjl08 said:
Has a case been made to remove Weston Station once the Crosstown is completed and Mount Dennis is added to the UPX?
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That I believe was the original plan. Good luck getting Weston which already feels neglected to be ok with that plan.
 
Woodbridge_Heights said:

Airport rail link - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

See section on one seat rides from Airport to City Centre
Click to expand...
ADRM said:
It also sort of depends what, specifically, you're talking about. Take London, where you have four international airports (Heathrow; Gatwick; Stanstead; City), and there are multiple ways to get to (some of) them by rail.

One can take the Heathrow Express or regular tube to Heathrow, for instance, and which option makes sense largely depends on your London destination -- the HE terminates at Paddington and the GE at Victoria. The last time I flew into Gatwick my final destination was Southwark, which meant that it was much quicker to take the DLR to Waterloo than to take the GE to Victoria and get down to Southwark via tube or taxi. The DLR was two stops to Victoria and I was in central London from Gatwick in 17 minutes without taking any of London's "airport express" trains.
Click to expand...
sixrings said:
i just don't understand. In your link there are countless airports connected via local transit lines with stops. Why in Toronto where we have a lack of public transit are we insisting to have a express only service at the expense of the local Toronto neighborhoods which could use an additional transit line.
Click to expand...
Woodbridge_Heights said:
You asked for examples where there are Airport to City Centre express services where there are no intermediate stops. I provided the link, read the section on One Seat Rids and note that the article itself mentions that some routes have no intermediate stops and some do... You can click through each service and find the ones that don't have any intermediate stops.

Now you've changed your question to one of why does Toronto have an airport express service. For the same reason Manchester, London, Milan, Bangkok, Beijing, etc, etc, etc do.
Click to expand...

I was the one asking if there is a non stop express from the city centre to airports. I am not meaning one seat. I mean no other stops.
 
micheal_can said:
I was the one asking if there is a non stop express from the city centre to airports. I am not meaning one seat. I mean no other stops.
Click to expand...

Apologies for the confusion between posters.

My comment remains the same. Read the Wikipedia entry, click through the services and find the ones that offer services with no intermediate stops. For example; Shanghai Maglev train connects Pudong airport with Longyang station in Pudong/Shanghai (not the city centre but on the outskirts of the city), Arlanda Express connects Stockholm airport with the city, and the Leonardo express connects Rome Fiumicino to the city centre. There I've answered your question, yes there are other cities where there is a direct rail connection between the airport and the city centre with no intermediate stops and to be honest it's not as uncommon as some would like other to believe.
 
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