Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

sixrings

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This is an active heavy rail line. The subway cars are not rated for the crash worthiness.
So RT trains can run in the same corridor as GO trains but subway cars can't? Don't subway cars run right beside GO trains and regular trains at Kipling
 

sixrings

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I thought you meant on the same tracks.

Is there space for 2 more tracks?
I dunno. But Doug Ford is so good at thinking out of the box I'm sure he will do whatever is necessary to help the good people of etobicoke the same way he has done for Scarborough
 

micheal_can

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The fact that Metrolinx is even having to choose between making this an airport train and commuter service really speaks to how poorly we've managed rapid transit expansion in this city. This would not be an issue if we had adequate transit options
Well, considering that so many transit plans have been made since opening the first part of the Yonge Subway and have been cancelled by successive governments, it is no surprise a 3-5 stop train running every 15 minutes is popular.
 

Rainforest

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Unfortunately, they painted themselves into the corner from the time they selected the design. The small station in the Airport precludes any use of large trains. Small trains that can fit into the airport station would be totally swarmed at the in-between stations, if the service operated at the regular GO fare. Hence they have to keep the fare somewhat higher than the regular GO, in order to prevent overcrowding. But the higher fare kills off-peak ridership, resulting in the need of a large subsidy.

If they raise the fare, that might not divert business travellers who can expense the cost, but the overall ridership will go down. It isn't even guaranteed that they will collect more revenue as a result; could actually be less revenue.

Not even sure how they can enhance the service to improve the usage and/or improve the cost recovery ratio; short of a very expensive and annoying rebuild of the Airport terminus.
 

sixrings

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Unfortunately, they painted themselves into the corner from the time they selected the design. The small station in the Airport precludes any use of large trains. Small trains that can fit into the airport station would be totally swarmed at the in-between stations, if the service operated at the regular GO fare. Hence they have to keep the fare somewhat higher than the regular GO, in order to prevent overcrowding. But the higher fare kills off-peak ridership, resulting in the need of a large subsidy.

If they raise the fare, that might not divert business travellers who can expense the cost, but the overall ridership will go down. It isn't even guaranteed that they will collect more revenue as a result; could actually be less revenue.

Not even sure how they can enhance the service to improve the usage and/or improve the cost recovery ratio; short of a very expensive and annoying rebuild of the Airport terminus.
They spent a whopping 500 million on the entire project. If they spend another 500 million and its actually more usable what's the issue. So we're ok with spending billions in Scarborough, billions on drl east. And for the UPX we have to just accept the mistake for eternity. That doesn't seem to make much sense.
 

BurlOak

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They spent a whopping 500 million on the entire project. If they spend another 500 million and its actually more usable what's the issue. So we're ok with spending billions in Scarborough, billions on drl east. And for the UPX we have to just accept the mistake for eternity. That doesn't seem to make much sense.
Maybe in a few years the Eglinton on-street LRT will be viewed the same way - as a mistake right from the beginning.
On UP - many on this board pointed out that the high priced luxury passenger service was a mistake - and that was the entire mandate of the project from when the Liberals started it.
 

tmlittle

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Unfortunately it seems like something that may only get resolved if/when the Pearson rail station becomes a reality. With a larger terminal you can have proper GO service, but if Pearson becomes "Union West", the need for an express train to Union declines, especially with RER. Similarly people will have more options for getting to Union. I think the idea someone mentioned a while ago about UPX turning into a "Pearson express" airport rail link branding with connections throughout the GTA might make sense by the time that switch over would happen in the 2030s. Similarly if UPX held onto its existing terminal that would give it a niche and advantage over GO trains for air travellers.
 

crs1026

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They spent a whopping 500 million on the entire project. If they spend another 500 million and its actually more usable what's the issue. So we're ok with spending billions in Scarborough, billions on drl east. And for the UPX we have to just accept the mistake for eternity. That doesn't seem to make much sense.
Well, more accurately, they budgeted about $457M for the project, and when it went over budget they made up the difference by cutting scope from the parallel project which was supposed to improve service to commuters in the Georgetown corridor.

In terms of priorities, the Georgetown (and now Kitchener) commuters needed to come first. Those commuters were badly shortchanged by McGinty and Wynne.

Even today, if I were going to kick people off an overcrowded UP run, I would tell the air travellers to call a limo, and let the commuters keep their seats. While that might be the poorest revenue choice looking only at UP, the air travellers have the deeper pockets and will shell out for the limo. There is a better case for subsidising the commuters.

Happily with RER coming, we will rectify this situation eventually. While we should learn from the history, we don’t need to use today as the base case for change. It’s the post-RER design that we need to get right.

- Paul
 

Admiral Beez

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Even today, if I were going to kick people off an overcrowded UP run, I would tell the air travellers to call a limo, and let the commuters keep their seats.
But that defeats the whole purpose of the UPE, that of a premium service from downtown to the airport. If this was intended as a commuter line it would never have been built. It's like it's been hijacked by commuters because the low price presented a commuter hack. Metrolinx might as well tear out the coach-style seating and throw in overhead grab bars and TTC subway benches.

Sure, I'll return to the limo service, but it's a shame that what I saw as a fantastic transit option has been reduced to a cattle train through improper pricing.
 

sixrings

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But that defeats the whole purpose of the UPE, that of a premium service from downtown to the airport. If this was intended as a commuter line it would never have been built. It's like it's been hijacked by commuters because the low price presented a commuter hack. Metrolinx might as well tear out the coach-style seating and throw in overhead grab bars and TTC subway benches.

Sure, I'll return to the limo service, but it's a shame that what I saw as a fantastic transit option has been reduced to a cattle train through improper pricing.
So air travellers who use the service once a week should be the ones who are catered to while the person who uses it twice daily should suffer. That makes sense. The problem is we needed a drl east and west. I'm glad the commuters are taking over this line. Without them politicians would try to pretend we can get by with just the University line.
 

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