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mdrejhon

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Having recently done a jurisdictional scan on fare evasion rates, 2% is roughly the common target for metro-mode transit, and that's usually at properties that have station gates. 2% for a non-gate rail agency is pretty good.
Is this fare evasion only, or all situations of fare non payments / missed payments / failed payments (machines) / etc?

(The distinction is important to me)
 

jcam

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Is this fare evasion only, or all situations of fare non payments / missed payments / failed payments (machines) / etc?

(The distinction is important to me)
Would include non-payments, missed payments, failed payments...based on having a passenger that can't show they've paid. Just to be clear, 2% is the common target, not what people are actually achieving.
 

Admiral Beez

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Fair enough. And I want that public service to be sufficiently expensive to keep you off it, unless you’re going to/from the airport, as it was intended.
Looks like a higher rate to keep the commuters off was considered.

 

crs1026

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Once RER starts running to Bramalea on 15 minute intervals, there is no need to have local customers on UP. At that point a more focussed airport service with commensurate fare increase might make sense. Move the Weston stop to MT Dennis to connect with the Crosstown. Retain a separate brand, but without all the foolish grandiose frills that the service started with.

Personally I don’t favour 100% cost recovery, but the subsidy should be in line with GO.

- Paul
 

Northern Light

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Once RER starts running to Bramalea on 15 minute intervals, there is no need to have local customers on UP. At that point a more focussed airport service with commensurate fare increase might make sense. Move the Weston stop to MT Dennis to connect with the Crosstown. Retain a separate brand, but without all the foolish grandiose frills that the service started with.

Personally I don’t favour 100% cost recovery, but the subsidy should be in line with GO.

- Paul
I would oppose a substantial hike; the airport/GTAA is a huge employer, both directly and through the airlines/vendors.

I personally know 2 people who work at the airport, and one who had the most forsaken comment ever is now able to use UPExpress to have a significantly better/reduced commute time.

His pay is not commensurate with a premium-fare service.

The other person I know (working at the airport) comes from the north-central part of York Region so this doesn't apply to her, but she certainly wishes it did.

Which does make me wonder, in theory, about running a service across the York Sub and down to the airport........one day.
 
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micheal_can

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Looks like a higher rate to keep the commuters off was considered.

That is because if they charged the rate GO users would pay on a GO train for that length, they would be inundated with ridership that it could not handle.
 

smallspy

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Which does make me wonder, in theory, about running a service across the York Sub and down to the airport........one day.
GO already runs a bus 24 hours each day that parallels much of the York Sub - the route 40.

And considering that service is only half-hourly during the middle of the day, I suspect that it will be quite a long time before we see a need to convert that service to rail-based.

Dan
 

rbt

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I would oppose a substantial hike; the airport/GTAA is a huge employer, both directly and through the airlines/vendors.
The restricted monthly pass is relatively affordable ($140/month unlimited travel), and probably would not change with the general single trip price.

 
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crs1026

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I would oppose a substantial hike; the airport/GTAA is a huge employer, both directly and through the airlines/vendors.
I personally know 2 people who work at the airport, and one had the most forsaken comment ever is now able to use UPExpress to have a significantly better/reduced commute time.
His pay is not commensurate with a premium-fare service.
Obviously I don’t know the specifics of this person’s commute, but a frequent bus connection from a transit hub at GO Malton strikes me as a reasonable commuting solution for those who work in the Airport proper, and has the potential to also serve the job-rich areas around it. I would argue that the terminal itself may not be the best location for such a hub considering the needs of these others. But I would not oppose a discounted monthly pass type fare for the airport worker business.

Ontario’s mistake was to try to install the airport service before addressing the bigger picture of commuting and local transit along the whole corridor. That was the original intent of the Georgetown South project, but it was waylaid when the Wynne government decided to make the airport line their vanity project.

I’m told the real estate market in Weston has seen a lot of activity since UP lowered its fares - that community has changed dramatically thanks to quasi-RER service. Had Ontario built the full 4-track Weston Sub, with the 401 tunnel, as GTS originally envisioned, we wouldn’t be here. Happily, that work is now under way.

- Paul
 

tmlittle

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Ontario seems slightly prone to, when finally building transit, building transit that doesn't fully consider needs -- I think UPX finding a commuter market is a bit of a happy accident given what the launch was like, but it is an important point that you're now having commuters taking trains configured for air travellers, just like how regular intercity travellers more often than not end up on what are theoretically commuter trains. I think it should be a lesson to future governments to fully consider induced demand and how higher order transit can change an area, but sadly I doubt this will happen. Still, better a train full of commuters than an empty train.
 

Admiral Beez

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Happy to see they opposed the move back to the "premium service." It punishes commuters. Not to mention, giving international travellers cushy, spacious trains
That's exactly why I used it. A nice quiet space, comfy chair and wi-fi. I never cared what it cost, if I'm flying privately I just paid thousands to fly so the train fee is meaningless, or on business I expense it. If I want the TTC experience, I know where to get it. If the UPE becomes just another jammed commuter train, I'll take my private car or Uber to the airport.

IMO, the UPE should never have included those middle stations. The Paddington to Heathrow train has no stops - that's the model I want.
 

Streety McCarface

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That's exactly why I used it. A nice quiet space, comfy chair and wi-fi. I never cared what it cost, if I'm flying privately I just paid thousands to fly so the train fee is meaningless, or on business I expense it. If I want the TTC experience, I know where to get it. If the UPE becomes just another jammed commuter train, I'll take my private car or Uber to the airport.

IMO, the UPE should never have included those middle stations. The Paddington to Heathrow train has no stops - that's the model I want.
Bloor (and eventually Mt Dennis) make sense, you have subway connections there, and not everyone is going to Union.
 

sixrings

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That's exactly why I used it. A nice quiet space, comfy chair and wi-fi. I never cared what it cost, if I'm flying privately I just paid thousands to fly so the train fee is meaningless, or on business I expense it. If I want the TTC experience, I know where to get it. If the UPE becomes just another jammed commuter train, I'll take my private car or Uber to the airport.

IMO, the UPE should never have included those middle stations. The Paddington to Heathrow train has no stops - that's the model I want.
I'd much rather people take their private car or uber to the airport and this line be converted fully to a commuter line. Like you said business travelers and international flyers can afford the extra costs associated with traveling. Commuters on the other hand probably can't afford it.
 

Streety McCarface

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I'd much rather people take their private car or uber to the airport and this line be converted fully to a commuter line. Like you said business travelers and international flyers can afford the extra costs associated with traveling. Commuters on the other hand probably can't afford it.
GO will be the full commuter line. You can have both, but a 20$ fare is nuts.
 

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