Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

TOareaFan said:
Gonna have to ask you to explain the thinking behind the bolded part there?
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If the province is committing to subsidizing UPX service, they'll not want to increase competing GO service. Why subsidize 2 half-empty trains mid-day and late evenings? The Brampton LRT had a clear purpose of feeding the Brampton GO station (not covered by UPX but would have been covered by additional normal GO service).

It's optics, but I think the Brampton LRT piece would have made it trickier to choose to terminate frequent GO service at Pearson instead of further along the line (Mount Pleasant is in the RER plans).

15 minute frequencies to Pearson, 15 minute frequencies to Mount Pleasant, and 60 minute frequencies to Kitchener? I'm not sure the ridership exists for that without large operating subsidies and GO generally doesn't get funding for large operating subsidies. Infinity capital dollars, but very little for operations.

To me, this is either temporary for a few years as a stop-gap, OR a choice has been made and Mount Pleasant may no longer be the target for 15 minute RER, OR Tory has offered future subsidies for operations and this is a SmartTrack test.

UPX has too much overhead for these kinds of fares. Tripling ridership would not pay their bills based on break-even of 5500 pax per day at $25 per person which I believe was the original estimated requirement.

I will be a lot happier if the Metrolinx meeting includes wording like "to be re-evaluated when RER service is available to Mount Pleasant".
 
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Grimace said:
I live steps from UPX at Bloor and work downtown. I often take the Bloor GO and will now switch full-time to UPX. While ridership from Bloor GO has picked up over last 5-10 years what I have really noticed is the increase in people who get off at Bloor on the Union-bound train (presumably, live in Brampton and transfer to TTC). I think there are more of them than there are people who get on at Bloor to go downtown. There are not enough of us Bloor GO people to overcrowd the UPX, given how frequently it runs. While this fare reduction will presumably switch all those Bloor GO people to the UPX, and perhaps draw some subway riders, the real change will be if they (a) connect the Dundas West subway platform to the UPX station and (2) integrate TTC/UPX fares. Until they do that, I will be one of the lucky few commuting in luxury.
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Exactly...I don't see the GO fares from Weston and Bloor as having "overcrowding" effects....just using excess capacity while it exists and while we wait for the 15 minute GO trains that have been promised.

If this line does get crowded now....presumably it is because people realize that $9 (or $12) for a guaranteed time/comfortable ride to the airport is a real bargoon!
 
rbt said:
If the province is committing to subsidizing UPX service, they'll also not want to increase GO service. Why subsidize 2 half-empty trains mid-day and late evenings? The Brampton LRT had a clear purpose of feeding the Brampton GO station (not covered by UPX but would have been covered by additional normal GO service).

It's optics, but I think the Brampton LRT piece would have made it trickier to choose to terminate frequent GO service at Pearson instead of further along the line.
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But the ReR service is only going to Bramalea.....the LRT was not going anywhere near Bramalea....really struggling to see the connection.
 
rbt said:
I'm worried this blocks additional GO service on the Georgetown corridor. Subsidizing 2 competing train services won't fly, and they've now chosen which of the 2 services will be getting the operating dollars.
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The Mount Pleasant-Brampton-Bramalea-Malton segment of the route has been generating good ridership since the daytime trains returned, and they derive higher fares than the Weston-Bloor segment. So I'm optimistic that GO will continue to improve this service.

If anything, one needs to be asking where the rest of the $1.7B investment in the GTS has gone. UPE, at an alleged $500M, is just small change.

- Paul
 
Grimace said:
I live steps from UPX at Bloor and work downtown. I often take the Bloor GO and will now switch full-time to UPX. While ridership from Bloor GO has picked up over last 5-10 years what I have really noticed is the increase in people who get off at Bloor on the Union-bound train (presumably, live in Brampton and transfer to TTC). I think there are more of them than there are people who get on at Bloor to go downtown. There are not enough of us Bloor GO people to overcrowd the UPX, given how frequently it runs. While this fare reduction will presumably switch all those Bloor GO people to the UPX, and perhaps draw some subway riders, the real change will be if they (a) connect the Dundas West subway platform to the UPX station and (2) integrate TTC/UPX fares. Until they do that, I will be one of the lucky few commuting in luxury.
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Howdy neighbour.

My observations are the same.

I also notice many people pulling luggage from the UP to TTC when I'm walking home from Dundas West after 6pm. Seems like a peak time for airport to city travel. If the UP and commuter peaks don't overlap too much, this will be a pretty useful usage of spare capacity.

I rarely use the GO from Bloor (work is in Mississauga), though soon I will use the UP fairly often for weekend or occasional evening rides to downtown.
 
kEiThZ said:
You think the government will have an easy time raising prices? That's cute.
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Compared to the rancor for TTC fare hikes, the discussion for GO is pretty much out of sight, out of mind. One of the benefits for having a board that are superfically independent with no elective representatives - the hikes are fait accompli.

AoD
 
The $10 psychological barrier is a lot different from the $20 one. Having said that, people are really going to have to evaluate whether it's worth it for them to use UP Express as part of their commute, as well as start using Presto, connecting transit, etc.
 
Based on the new fares, is it safe to say that the UP Express is officially the first GO RER line? Aside from lack of electrification, the line will be running every 15 minutes and at standard GO fares.

(And those wishing to go the airport will pay a premium to do so)

Now if only it were easier for the average person to navigate from the UPX station at Union to Union Station itself…
 
My brother lives at Keele and Bloor and always takes the Kipling express bus to get to Pearson, swearing he'd never take the "cash grabbing" UPX. I'm sure today he'll rethink his travel mode.
 
mjl08 said:
My brother lives at Keele and Bloor and always takes the Kipling express bus to get to Pearson, swearing he'd never take the "cash grabbing" UPX. I'm sure today he'll rethink his travel mode.
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From Keele and Bloor? To T3? Google Maps tells me the 192 is 45 minutes, and the Airport Express is too - https://www.google.ca/maps/dir/Toro...!2m2!1d-79.6201664!2d43.6859436!3e3!5i3?hl=en

With the 192 being more frequent, and a lot less walking (from Dundas West station to Bloor Station), not to mention the doubling back on the subway ... I don't know why one would take the UP from there, unless the subway is down.
 
nfitz said:
From Keele and Bloor? To T3? Google Maps tells me the 192 is 45 minutes, and the Airport Express is too - https://www.google.ca/maps/dir/Toro...!2m2!1d-79.6201664!2d43.6859436!3e3!5i3?hl=en

With the 192 being more frequent, and a lot less walking (from Dundas West station to Bloor Station), not to mention the doubling back on the subway ... I don't know why one would take the UP from there, unless the subway is down.
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The Google Maps route involves a 1.2km walk between T1 and T3 for the UP Express, which no one would realistically do when the LINK train is available.
 
LNahid2000 said:
The Google Maps route involves a 1.2km walk between T1 and T3 for the UP Express, which no one would realistically do when the LINK train is available.
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Ah, so it does.

It says 27 minutes to T1 - but says it's only a 3-minute walk from Dundas West Station to Bloor GO - which seems overly optimistic

Still, only saves about 15 minutes, if you catch a train quickly. But the train only comes every 15 minutes. Once you bother going down the Line 2 subway, I figure you might as well just go for the Airport Rocket - unless there's some freak traffic problem (I never find the traffic that bad on the 427!).
 
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