Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

I think the UPX would be better off as part of the regular GO network. Have it stop at all stations and drop the fare to a regular GO fare and it would be an instant success. Even the low level platforms shouldn't be too much of an issue - I've been on trains that stop at both low and high platforms and have retractable stairs for the low ones. They'd probably need more trains.

A premium service should come after regular transit is established, not before.
 
I think the UPX would be better off as part of the regular GO network. Have it stop at all stations and drop the fare to a regular GO fare and it would be an instant success.

It stops at all GO stations now with the exception of Etobicoke North...so not much of a change there....and, as discussed earlier, it is not clear that GO fares between the GO stations on this line within the 416 would create "an instant success"....unless you are suggesting some sort of GO fare to the airport too...although it is not clear what a GO train fare to the airport is as none currently exist.
 
Wow $30-$35 fares. The blue line is a perfectly workable solution for getting to/from the airport (at least when the drivers remember to stop at the end of the station). I could see how there would be a market for some business travelers who would prefer the socioeconomic status difference between the blue line and an airport express. I think the real killer in Chicago is that the time argument is just not that solid. Chicago Union Station is quite a bit farther from where most travelers are going than Toronto's Union Station, and the blue line is already far faster than the TTC option, so I think for most of my typical trips to Chicago, an airport express wouldn't save me any time.
 
The lowest price I would support is $15. A Premium Express fare on the ttc is the cost of one additional fare, that's $3.25 regular + $3.25 premium fare = $6.50. Double that again, to recognize that it is an airport express, brings you to $13. When fare by distance is rolled in (for intermediate stops) we get to ~$15
The elephant in the room however is the Weston and Bloor fares.

I'm not convinced that ridership is very sensitive to the fare to the airport. I do think the ridership to Bloor and Weston is very price-sensitive.
 
The lowest price I would support is $15. A Premium Express fare on the ttc is the cost of one additional fare, that's $3.25 regular + $3.25 premium fare = $6.50. Double that again, to recognize that it is an airport express, brings you to $13. When fare by distance is rolled in (for intermediate stops) we get to ~$15

unfortunately your logic is flawed....UPX is part of metrolinx and not TTC...therefore they are not obliged to run under the TTC fare. Once again people please stop tying a metrolinx express service as if its part of TTC, especially if theres no fare integration yet. once that is implemented...then we can talk...I support lowering prices to a be more competitive but its not supposed to me local mass transit and the fare needs to reflect that.
 
The elephant in the room however is the Weston and Bloor fares.

I'm not convinced that ridership is very sensitive to the fare to the airport. I do think the ridership to Bloor and Weston is very price-sensitive.
You may be right, but I'd rather experiment with the fare first in the context of fulfilling its intended purpose, namely getting passengers to and from the airport. If this train can't make it as an airport service, I think we should scrap it and reuse the infrastructure for something else instead of trying to shoehorn it into something it's not.
 
unfortunately your logic is flawed....UPX is part of metrolinx and not TTC...therefore they are not obliged to run under the TTC fare. Once again people please stop tying a metrolinx express service as if its part of TTC, especially if theres no fare integration yet. once that is implemented...then we can talk...I support lowering prices to a be more competitive but its not supposed to me local mass transit and the fare needs to reflect that.

Well a trip from Malton to Union is $7.70, so a double fare for express still comes out to $15+. I'm not in support of lowering fares per se, just that IF the fares are reduced the floor would be $15. Those who think that they should be able to ride the UPX to the Airport for the cost of a TTC fare are simply not in reality.
 
Have some family staying with me before leaving for Florida. Let them know the price of the UPX plus a TTC token and they opted for a cab.
 
Have some family staying with me before leaving for Florida. Let them know the price of the UPX plus a TTC token and they opted for a cab.

That's very nice--congratulations! I know the price of a cab, and have been stuck on the gardiner/427 enough times to be very familiar with having to leave hours in advance, and opt for the UPX instead.
 
Have some family staying with me before leaving for Florida. Let them know the price of the UPX plus a TTC token and they opted for a cab.

Since you leave out the two most important factors in making a UPX vs. Taxi decision, number of passengers and starting point, I'm assuming this was just for trolling purposes?
 
That's very nice--congratulations! I know the price of a cab, and have been stuck on the gardiner/427 enough times to be very familiar with having to leave hours in advance, and opt for the UPX instead.
Exaggerating about traffic in Toronto as usual I see.
 
as discussed earlier, it is not clear that GO fares between the GO stations on this line within the 416 would create "an instant success"....unless you are suggesting some sort of GO fare to the airport too...although it is not clear what a GO train fare to the airport is as none currently exist.

The GO Transit fare for a direct trip from Union to Pearson is currently $7.70 cash, $6.84 Presto. GO's fare system is based on zones and does not vary with transport mode (though it does vary with transfers). A service doesn't need to actually exist for the fare calculator to work correctly.

Pearson is currently in the same zone as Malton, but to capitalize on the reality that airport passengers are willing to pay more, we could make a separate zone just for Pearson Airport to increase the cost of those trips slightly. We could also introduce a dedicated fare zone for Union Station since it also has high demand. With a separate zone, there would be more incentive for passengers to get off at Exhibition or Bloor, limiting the capacity strain on Union. These fare changes would increase the cost for all GO trips to and from Pearson and/or Union, but they could serve as an alternative to the routine method of fare increase.
 
Hello transit gurus :) new member here. I've been an occasional reader of UT and just want to contribute my impression of UPX so far.

I work downtown on Front Street W a few blocks from Union Station, and travel for work about 3 times a month, mostly via YYZ. Before moving to TO, I had lived in Boston, SF, and Berlin so I've had some exposure to mass transit usage in other cities. By comparison, I think UPX works overall quite well from a passenger perspective.

A few benefits I've personally come to appreciate about UPX as a somewhat regular rider:
1. On-time performance, around the clock. This is huge because as a regular traveler, I tend to avoid spending too much time at the airport and always leave about 90-120 minutes before my flight departure time. UPX has allowed me that predictability that no other service can guarantee. Last week, I made the mistake of taking a limo from First Canadian Place to catch my flight at YYZ - I got into the car at 7 pm on a Thursday evening, and 10 min later, was still creeping on the ramp below Gardiner. Once on Gardiner, all was well until we reached Islington, another back up that lasted for 5 min before getting on 427 North. All in all, the whole thing took about 40-45 min door-to-door, which wasn't bad at all. However, throughout the entire journey, I was constantly dreading the possibility of missing my flight and couldn't relax until reaching YYZ. I never had to dread this kind of scenario when taking the UPX.

2. Overall rider experience: 3 weeks ago after landing at YYZ at 10:45 am in the morning, I had to get on a last-minute conference call at 11 am. UPX proved to be a life saver because I got on the train departing YYZ at 10:57, comfortably seated, and was able to dial-in at 11 am sharp for a 30 min conference call. During the call, I was able to charge my phone, walk about the train to stretch my legs, and enjoyed a relatively quiet working environment for 25 min. I took advantage of the onboard restroom for the first time, and was able to brush my teeth, freshen up, change and get ready for an upcoming meeting at noon, all the while continuing a conference call (I was on mute). These amenities may sound like trivial benefits, but for anyone who travels somewhat frequently or just got off a plane and had to head straight to work, it's a huge plus.

As for empty trains, I often land in YYZ in the morning periods between 10 am - 12 pm on weekdays, and notice a decent-ish ridership, nowhere near full or half-full but definitely not a "ghost train". Often times when I walk into the first car at YYZ, it would be half full, so I always ended up using the second car which usually had 3-5 people and provided a more quiet environment for working and taking calls.
 
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Unfortunately you're pretty much in dream land over here...first of all you'll need to install a third rail which is another large project in itself that will cost hundreds of millions of dollars. I'm not sure it's even possible with the space provided since you needadditional space for a third rail especially at the switches. even if it's possible metrolinx will not ditch their electrification plan already in place to go this route which will mean another ea and all the redtape BS. What they could do is buy emus with more capacity (like Rome's Leonardo express


Perhaps you have never seen my other thoughts on the UPX but I have NEVER advocated for a third rail subway for the UPX. It would be a waste of money and ill advised. I have always advocated the use of catenary subway trains like in Cleveland's airport subway, the Red Line. They are very common and in fact the Barcelona, Hong Kong, Delhi, and Singapore systems are exclusively catenary and most of Tokyo's. Sao Paulo has greatly expanded it's Metro in part by transferring former commuter lines into catenary Metros.

As you state, seeing electrification is going to be done anyway, the time and funds needed would be minimal. GO is simply too expensive for most which is why Toronto, despite having served bt all 7 lines, having the cheapest fares to Union, the most station, and best service in the entire GO service area, has lower GO ridership than Mississauga with less than a third of Toronto's population. That's not because Torontonians love waiting in the rain for a bus, get passed by another packed streetcar , or enjoy the underground view of the subway with someone's armpit in your face. No it's because of the very high fares.

Unless UPX bring sown it's fares to TTC levels it will be a failure as and to a lesser extent so will RER.
 

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