Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

TOareaFan said:
I was responding to a post that said



I was suggesting that very same fare at +/- the same frequencies (in the peak hour referred to) are not being utilized in great numbers today.

So if you are suggesting that $5 is not going to attract riders from Bloor or Weston in significant numbers....then you are suggesting that ReR as envisioned will not either.
Click to expand...
$4.00 would do it. For me anyways. $5 is pushing it because now thats $10 per day
 
Palma said:
$4.00 would do it. For me anyways. $5 is pushing it because now thats $10 per day
Click to expand...
I did not intend to debate pricing.....I was responding to someone who suggested there would be significant ridership if there was a $5 express train to bloor at peak hours....my response was that it is not working that way now so not sure why it would in future.

That's all.
 
TOareaFan said:
I did not intend to debate pricing.....I was responding to someone who suggested there would be significant ridership if there was a $5 express train to bloor at peak hours....my response was that it is not working that way now so not sure why it would in future.

That's all.
Click to expand...
We will have to just see what the Metrolinx board comes back with in terms of fares at their next meeting. Should be interesting
 
Just make it part of the TTC with an extra $3 for the trip to Pearson. They can buy more trains to run them every 7 or 8 minutes. Even if the trains are still packed who cares? Really, people are already packed in on the buses and subways and I personally would rather be packed on a 15 minute downtown trip from Weston than a half hour one.
 
TOareaFan said:
I was suggesting that very same fare at +/- the same frequencies (in the peak hour referred to) are not being utilized in great numbers today.

So if you are suggesting that $5 is not going to attract riders from Bloor or Weston in significant numbers....then you are suggesting that ReR as envisioned will not either.
Click to expand...

Hardly the same frequencies with GO today. And frequency matters a lot if it's a choice between TTC and UPE on that route.

But sure the market for just this service is quite limited (is it 750 pphpd or more, or less? it hardly matters). For RER/ST to be used it needs fare integration and downtown infill stations.

Still, if they can't fill those little trains at $5 I do wonder if we need that kind of enhanced service on the west side at all...
 
k10ery said:
Hardly the same frequencies with GO today. And frequency matters a lot if it's a choice between TTC and UPE on that route.
Click to expand...

In the peak hour (which was what being discussed here in terms of potential ridership) there is train EB every 22.5 minutes (on average) in the evening rush. Not quite the 15 minutes being promised in ReR or which is available on UP but not that far off to suggest that it might not just be the GO fare of ~$5 that is keeping the hordes we hear about from using it....because at those same fares and that frequency the number of people getting off any of those trains at Bloor and Weston (combined) would not cause any stress on the UP capacacity.


Still, if they can't fill those little trains at $5 I do wonder if we need that kind of enhanced service on the west side at all...
Click to expand...

At this point, the ridership on the GO line comes from farther west, but what got this discussion going was my suggestion that the excess capacity currently seen on the UP trains might be a useful way to test out how much ridership there is from Weston and Bloor.
 
ssiguy2 said:
Just make it part of the TTC with an extra $3 for the trip to Pearson. They can buy more trains to run them every 7 or 8 minutes. Even if the trains are still packed who cares? Really, people are already packed in on the buses and subways and I personally would rather be packed on a 15 minute downtown trip from Weston than a half hour one.
Click to expand...

If you're going to make it part of something, it would be better integration into the GO network, not the TTC.
 
k10ery said:
Hardly the same frequencies with GO today. And frequency matters a lot if it's a choice between TTC and UPE on that route.

But sure the market for just this service is quite limited (is it 750 pphpd or more, or less? it hardly matters). For RER/ST to be used it needs fare integration and downtown infill stations.

Still, if they can't fill those little trains at $5 I do wonder if we need that kind of enhanced service on the west side at all...
Click to expand...
And you think people in the east would pay $5?
 
Riverdale Rink Rat said:
If you're going to make it part of something, it would be better integration into the GO network, not the TTC.
Click to expand...

I disagree.
GO's fare's are too high for most and people don't use it due to this. GO ridership isn't lousy in Toronto because there is no demand but because the fares are simply to high and if you don't live right at a GO station {which the vast majority don't} then you end up paying the TTC fare as well.

People are very price sensitive, as recent studies, UPX, and common sense dictates. Ditch the DMU and replace them with 4 to 4.5 car long subway trains. They would offer higher capacity, less dwell times, and far faster exit/entry which is essential with more planned stations.
 
The problem you have to remember is that the UPX is hilariously low capacity, something like 600 people per hour. Using TTC fares would likely far overload that. I'm thinking a fare like $10 would be the sweet spot, enough to discourage regular commuters, but low enough for most airport travellers to still use it. That would likely hit the capacity "sweet spot".

But what do I know, I'm just some silly internet commenter.
 
ssiguy2 said:
I disagree.
GO's fare's are too high for most and people don't use it due to this. GO ridership isn't lousy in Toronto because there is no demand but because the fares are simply to high and if you don't live right at a GO station {which the vast majority don't} then you end up paying the TTC fare as well.

People are very price sensitive, as recent studies, UPX, and common sense dictates. Ditch the DMU and replace them with 4 to 4.5 car long subway trains. They would offer higher capacity, less dwell times, and far faster exit/entry which is essential with more planned stations.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but now you're just making suggestions that are not feasible nor desirable.
 
innsertnamehere said:
The problem you have to remember is that the UPX is hilariously low capacity, something like 600 people per hour. Using TTC fares would likely far overload that. I'm thinking a fare like $10 would be the sweet spot, enough to discourage regular commuters, but low enough for most airport travellers to still use it. That would likely hit the capacity "sweet spot".

But what do I know, I'm just some silly internet commenter.
Click to expand...

As another SIC, I don't think the price matters anywhere near as much as the noise surrounding it would indicate. But, to take my stab: let's see how many commuters would really take UPX from Union to the airport. Lower all fares to the Presto discounted price level, and add a monthly commuter pass at a GO level price. If that doesn't get commuters on the UPX, Metrolinx could then stop listening to the yammering and go back to finding out how to get int'l biz travellers on the train - discounts w/ hotels, shuttle bus to/from Union, whatever.
 
ssiguy2 said:
I disagree.
GO's fare's are too high for most and people don't use it due to this. GO ridership isn't lousy in Toronto because there is no demand but because the fares are simply to high and if you don't live right at a GO station {which the vast majority don't} then you end up paying the TTC fare as well.

People are very price sensitive, as recent studies, UPX, and common sense dictates. Ditch the DMU and replace them with 4 to 4.5 car long subway trains. They would offer higher capacity, less dwell times, and far faster exit/entry which is essential with more planned stations.
Click to expand...


Unfortunately you're pretty much in dream land over here...first of all you'll need to install a third rail which is another large project in itself that will cost hundreds of millions of dollars. I'm not sure it's even possible with the space provided since you needadditional space for a third rail especially at the switches. even if it's possible metrolinx will not ditch their electrification plan already in place to go this route which will mean another ea and all the redtape BS. What they could do is buy emus with more capacity (like Rome's Leonardo express)

Most fundamentally though I don't know why people assume metrolinx revolves around TTC. It's the other way around. This is metrolinxs line not TTCs and they won't cede control especially after the years of political selfishness shown by them (ie their refusal to integrate into presto until they had absolutely no choice). They designed it as a premium express service and not for local mass transit. The best option now is to adjust the pricing to get more people without overloading the current infrastructure. Even if you dump subway cars on this line you won't necessarily get much greater numbers because not many people will go specifically to union just to take the train. How many more people will get on at Weston and bloor? If you want more people build more connecting terminal stations so people can actually conveniently connect to it from many points. That's what Crosstown west and smarttrack will eventually do (I stress eventually). So please stop with the pipe dreams of having TTC run the show. It will simply not happen
 
The lowest price I would support is $15. A Premium Express fare on the ttc is the cost of one additional fare, that's $3.25 regular + $3.25 premium fare = $6.50. Double that again, to recognize that it is an airport express, brings you to $13. When fare by distance is rolled in (for intermediate stops) we get to ~$15
 
You must log in or register to post here.

Back
Top