innsertnamehere
Superstar
why haha? the earlier the better is it not?
Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited
Markster
Senior Member
Could it not be that April 26th is just when they enter full Dress Rehearsal mode? They'd need the crews all the same.
vegeta_skyline
Senior Member
Can't say. I haven't been paying attention to all the media releases so some of these may have already been confirmed elsewhere;
- The first departures from both Union station and the airport looks to be 5:30am. The last train from Union to the Airport is at 1:00am.
- Train departures from Union Station for all hours of operation will indeed be every 0:00 0:15, 0:30, 0:45 after the hour with arrivals coming in 5 minutes before. 5 minutes might seem like a short dwell time but don't worry - if you miss one the next one will be there in 10 minutes. Likewise departures from Pearson will be the same every 0:00 0:15, 0:30, 0:45 after the hour.
- Every morning 2 trains will originate from Willowbrook, 2 from the Don Yard & 1 from the VIA TMC and will layover at night in the same way, with equipment cycling over the course of the week.
- The UP service will be manned by 16 total crews, 8 in the morning and 8 in the evening. Plus spare board personal, for which it appears there will be at least 8 additional crews. Meaning a minimum of 48 for the headend. Every train will have 2 "operators". Though only one of them will actually be a qualified train operator/locomotive engineer the second operator on every train will be a conductor. This is in contrast to regular GO service where it's clearly stated that every train will be manned by two locomotive engineers, once there is enough of course. Basically its a cost saving measure, albeit not a very large one. Crewing costs for the each train UP crew will be about $105/hr. Total hours for each crew member on all trains per day is about 160. 8 spare board positions would be an additional 64hrs a day. However this doesn't include the additional hours logged by the GSR's(Guest Service Representatives) when they are working the service counter.
- Yup not only will these kind folks be helping you on the train interestingly enough they'll also be the ones you see behind the counter both at Union Station & Pearson!
drum118
Superstar
Isn't that the date they start daylight testing from 7-7? I know it may happen on the 13th. Then it could become a full dress rehearsal for full service starting early May.
Would be surprise if you weren't bidding for a position on this line.
Very hard to say if Weston and Bloor will be ready for that date.
They have being only running 1 train for testing this week from what I have seen since there is only a single track from Lansdowne to Black Creek as track 4 will not be finish until this weekend and go live then. 2 is out of service 100%.
Then, you have the same issue at Weston with crews still working on both platforms. Having trains running on track 2 & 3 will have an impact on work on the centre platform since they will be passing it every 7-8 minutes on one of the 2 tracks.
The goal is to get the west platform back in service in the next 2 week and good luck on that. This will allow track 2 or 3 to be out of service while work is still taking place on the centre platform. If track 4 being used, it will have an impact on the Lawrence bridge as well the UPX platform.
No idea where Union Station stands at this time.
crs1026
Superstar
Recently UPX issued a Tweet celebrating the new "designer quality" uniforms which crews supposedly will be issued. They are in a very trendy green with a European-esque conductor style (traditional railway cap, across the shoulder handbag for men, skirts with the latest hemline and funky boots for women). One rogue tweeter called it the "Hitler Youth" look.
Neither male nor female uniforms looked CROR-friendly - the womens' bare legs and footwear would not be acceptable from a safety perspective, and the mens' boots didn't look like CSA-approved footwear either. And no orange vests, which would certainly send any competent fashion consultant back to their fabric swatches.
Which simply represents one more example of how this service has been conceived and implemented as an unnecessarily extravagant boondoggle.... I wonder how much these uniforms cost to design, and how much more expensive they will be to issue. Or will they actually be worn at all. I don't think GO's existing uniforms would offend the sensibilities of the average air traveller, even one believing UPX is an elite boutique transportation service. Even ultra-hip Leap Transit only issues a T-shirt http://money.cnn.com/2015/03/23/technology/luxury-bus-startup-leap/
- Paul
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Markster
Senior Member
k10ery
Senior Member
Agreed. Excited though my son and I are to ride this new train, the project seems so out of touch with reality that I almost see it being run by Marlon Brando from Apocalypse Now. The horror!
Based on the Neptis estimates (which line up with what vegeta said about staffing), the operating cost will work out to less than $2 per rider, even at ML's low projected ridership. But they plan to charge 10 times that much, reserving the line for business travellers. Meanwhile the Ontario taxpayer fronts all that money and gives up a valuable rail corridor -- that could even now be a DRL-Lite! -- and gets nothing in return, ever. Brilliant.
I hope that in six months, after things settle down, the Star sends out some reporters to find out:
- how many people are actually riding this white elephant?
- how many of them live in the GTA?
- is anybody, anybody using that lounge at Union? And what for?
Like I said though, can't wait to ride it
Adjei
Senior Member
Why would they even use GO Transit uniforms. They are two different services. It's like saying TTC workers should be using GO uniforms.
crs1026
Superstar
Because the crews are being drawn from the GO Transit/BBD labour pool and already have GO Uniforms. Because the GO uniforms meet safety standards. Because the GO uniforms already have a sunk design and procurement cost. Because the overall size of the GO/UPX labour force doesn't merit two separate overheads. (Should Roncy Division operators have a different uniform than Queensway Division operators?)
- Paul
AlbertHWagstaff
Senior Member
None of that matters because Metrolinx brands GO and UPX as separate services even if the same crews work on them. It's sort of like CTV Toronto and CP24, they rarely mention each other even though they share a lot of resources.
TOareaFan
Superstar
This part of your post confuses me.....when you state that a 10X operating margin reserves "the line for business travellers" you suggest that operating margin somehow influences consumer demand. Is Tim Horton's reserved for business people because they sell that cup of coffee they produce for pennies for $2? Of course not.
The consumer (business, executive, blue collar, whatever) chooses products and services based on their need and the relative value of those products and services relative to the alternatives that fill the same need.
In this case, all consumers will judge this line on its value proposition. $19 for a 25 minute ride to the airport.....compared to a TTC ride and shuttle that costs $2.80 and takes 50 - 70 minutes.....and a cab that costs $50 and takes, what, 30 - 60 minutes (or even longer).
No one (well very few) will know the operating margins of this service and even less will care.
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k10ery
Senior Member
The point about operating cost is that this service could be priced at $3 a ride -- and they could even throw in a free TTC transfer. If we applied the same thinking to this line as to every other transport project in Ontario, then that is what we would do. If we did that, we would have what I called a DRL Lite.
But UPE has to cover its capital costs, so it's only for the airport, and it's only for those with a lot of money to boot.
If we required the Spadina extension to cover its capital costs, how much would a ticket cost? $30 a ride?
None of this is a new complaint of course. It's just Paul mentioning those uniforms got me wondering again, how did this project get so far off the reservation, and nobody ever brought it back? (Oh right, because "world class" cities have an express train to the airport.)
TOareaFan
Superstar
Perhaps....but if we did that the other complaint would have been "we spent $500million on this and a further $1.3B on the GTS project that made this possible and for that $1.8B we could have done X and a train to the airport is not a priority"
My money would be on that as the complaint. The notion that this could be a DRL type service only came about after it was well under planning/construction and that got approval under a business plan that was a semi-express service to the airport.
The notion that only people with "a lot of money" can afford to ride this is silly. Every time I am at the airport I see lots and lots of people, of all demographics, riding cabs to the airport....and if 2 people can afford a 50 - 60 cab ride they can afford to pay for two $19 tickets on this train.
k10ery
Senior Member
Sure, but nobody is going to pay 19 bucks to take the train to work from Weston to downtown in the morning. I don't know if the airport bound users will be rich, and I don't care. This train could have a lot more riders - and it would if they set the price right (and we dropped a few mill on infill stations).
TOareaFan
Superstar
Good thing, then, that they can continue to use the same set of GO trains at $5.09 a trip to do that. Phew!
Ok then, but that is different from what you said a couple of posts ago when, according to you, only people with lots of money could/would ride the train.
A "few" million on stations and likely a lot more designing a much higher capacity system if, as you proposed, this was priced at $3 a ride....so how much more than the current $500 million (+/-) would that higher capacity system cost?