EnviroTO
Senior Member
Between 12:30–6:30am they have very few flights (mostly cargo and a few late arriving charters) and I believe that airlines which don't have permission to land during this period pay a penalty.
Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited
Between 12:30–6:30am they have very few flights (mostly cargo and a few late arriving charters) and I believe that airlines which don't have permission to land during this period pay a penalty.
TOareaFan
Superstar
Like I said....less operations overnight...but not a curfew.
TOareaFan
Superstar
Irrespective of how expandable Bloor and Weston (and the proposed Mt. Dennis) are....the terminus station is not expandable......so Pearson station acts as a defacto limiter on how long the trains can be.
Platform 27
Active Member
Says you. I've dorkily spent a bit of time following that project over last couple of years and while I makes no claims to be a transit planning expert, I disagree.
Denver is a two-in-one system that's firstly intended to fill a GO-type role on a railway corridor that has zero transit on it today, and where they're also hoping to kill a second bird with the same stone by continuing it on out past the edge of the suburbs to their shiny new airport that was built in the middle of nowhere. Imagine if GO had never been built in the 70s, Pearson had been closed in the 90s and a replacement airport had been built another 10 km further out somewhere in a field beyond Brampton, and as downlingm pointed out, the feds were coming to the table with billions in funding... I suspect there would have been serious thought in Toronto of building a two-in-one service to Brampton and then onwards to the airport.
But we're not like that. We have a 40-year-old GO line that's bursting at the seams with commuters who mostly live further away from downtown than the airport, and, thankfully, we finally have plans to expand that service. We have an airport hemmed in by existing development that needs either a dead-ended spur or an expensive diversion if you want to have a one-seat ride using the existing railway line. We have plans for a light rail service on a vaguely parallel corridor that was originally planned to open in combination with this service but got delayed. We have none of the tax options that American cities have and instead need to have much higher farebox recovery. If Denver was in our shoes, maybe they'd have built something that looks a bit like us. It's hard to know.
You seem to think it's insanity to put two transit streams on a common corridor and specialize them a bit to meet each market segment. There are arguments to be made either way on the question of two services vs one, but we're certainly not the first city to take the split service approach.
Also, as far as I know, Denver hasn't set their airport fares yet.
Call me naive, but I am going to wait until Toronto's service has operated for at least one day and Denver's servie has operated for at least one full day before I write a sentence like that.
Notwithstanding your carefully researched analysis of the available market, you're forgetting what EnviroTO just pointed out: the infrastructure is built for a 180 passenger train every 15 minutes. You could pay people to ride it and you couldn't move 150,000 a day.
RER or Smarttrack or REX or whatever is coming, hopefully. That will move whatever number of potential commuters that are up for grabs along this corridor at a lower price.
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EnviroTO
Senior Member
That is far more expensive than what they have built. That frequency requires electric, small signal blocks, and has little traffic contention. Significantly altering the capacity on the train itself means removing space for luggage.
Longer platforms at the airport are not possible without a tear-down and rebuild of the airport people mover and approach roads to the terminal, not to mention the bridge they just built.
Platform 27
Active Member
TrickyRicky
Senior Member
Well even at $30 you can count this fat cat in. The comparable price should be based on the transportation alternatives. You evaluate the price of your home based on neighbourhood comparisons not on the price of homes in Mongolia.
I've taken the TTC bus to Pearson many times so there is already a $3 alternative. Luggage on the bus leg of this journey is no easy thing and sometime near impossible for children or seniors. I've also missed a flight once in part due to traffic / problems on the route and in part because I was an idiot for leaving too late. If I am by myself and traveling light this is still an option.
Parking at the airport is expensive, period. The Pearson lot is convenient but priced accordingly. Park and Fly is cheaper but beware the crunch to get to your car if you arrive during airport rush-hour or if you are parking outside and your vehicle is covered in ice and snow in the winter. Suddenly cheaper doesn't feel so good.
I sometimes just take a cab, which at $55 is steep but sometimes you just don't have any fight left in you after arrival and fighting your way out of the terminal. Split between multiple people going to the same destination $55 isn't too bad; however, you might get stuck in Toronto traffic as well if you take a cab.
I've taken the TTC bus to Pearson many times so there is already a $3 alternative. Luggage on the bus leg of this journey is no easy thing and sometime near impossible for children or seniors. I've also missed a flight once in part due to traffic / problems on the route and in part because I was an idiot for leaving too late. If I am by myself and traveling light this is still an option.
Parking at the airport is expensive, period. The Pearson lot is convenient but priced accordingly. Park and Fly is cheaper but beware the crunch to get to your car if you arrive during airport rush-hour or if you are parking outside and your vehicle is covered in ice and snow in the winter. Suddenly cheaper doesn't feel so good.
I sometimes just take a cab, which at $55 is steep but sometimes you just don't have any fight left in you after arrival and fighting your way out of the terminal. Split between multiple people going to the same destination $55 isn't too bad; however, you might get stuck in Toronto traffic as well if you take a cab.
DonValleyRainbow
Senior Member
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I walked past there yesterday, looks like they're finishing the rebar work on the top of that, and readying for the concrete pour.
I tell ya, it's come a long way in the past couple months, all of a sudden there's completed concrete everywhere.
ehlow
Senior Member
Toronto Council just voted ask Metrolinx to set "affordable" fares and add more stops for UPX, including Eglinton & Liberty Village.
I'm guessing Metrolinx doesn't have to listen to them?
I'm guessing Metrolinx doesn't have to listen to them?
TOareaFan
Superstar
no they don't
is that how they phrased their motion "affordable" who defines what that is?
nfitz
Superstar
"affordable to most Torontonians". Given the current provincial government is holding a majority because they won almost all the Toronto seats, it does apply pressure. Does Wynne really want to go into the next election having priced it so it isn't affordable to most Torontonians?
It's good pressure to put the fares in the lower part of the range.
And it's also pressure on the GTAA to cancel the $1.85 fee.
christiesplits
Senior Member
Of course they won't. But this is shaping up to be a PR nightmare for Metrolinx.
TOareaFan
Superstar
If Toronto council is going to wage a PR war over a set of fares that have not been announced I guess it is appropriate that they also did not define what they thought was affordable.
nfitz
Superstar
The other motion recommended that they be in line with existing GO Transit fares. Doesn't that define it?
TOareaFan
Superstar
Thanks...that is why I asked about the motion....saying "affordable" is silly......but I guess, since it is about $7 to Malton they are saying $7? Perhaps they didn't actually say that because even they realize how off that is.