Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

[TOareaFan]

because freight very rarely used the tracks, and the portions it did use were 3-5 tracks wide.

How much difference in freight usage is there? There is also a lot more Via/amtrak use of those lines....does that balance out? From what I understand, the freight use on the KW corridor is also much reduced once you get east of Bramalea so are we really talking about the stretch through DT Brampton and west to Mt.Pleasant/GTown causing all this?

 

[innsertnamehere]

yes essentially, DT Brampton is the bottleneck. VIA operates a lot, but the lakeshore corridor also experiences serious delays at the singular 2 track portion left on the line. AMTRACK operates only a couple of times a week IIRC.

 

[ShonTron]

During the nearly 40 years of hourly off peak service on Lakeshore...weren't there stretches there that were only double tracked? didn't that line have mixed rail traffic of GO/Via/Freight as well? If so, why would this line need to be more than double tracked to support it? (someone from GO sent me an email not so long ago suggesting it needed to be 4 tracks wide to support all day, 7 day, two way service).

Aldershot-Burlington (shared with the same CN trains through Brampton and more VIA trains) is three mainline tracks (though Aldershot, where 95% of GO weekday trains terminate past Burlington, has four platforms). That's with 30 minute service. I call bullshit on needing four tracks.

Amtrak has one daily round trip (7 RTs a week), but it operates with VIA crews through Oakville and Grimsby Subdivisions.

 

[TOareaFan]

yes essentially, DT Brampton is the bottleneck. VIA operates a lot, but the lakeshore corridor also experiences serious delays at the singular 2 track portion left on the line. AMTRACK operates only a couple of times a week IIRC.

Is it not as simple as saying.....at no time will there ever be two GO Trains at the platforms in DT Brampton leaving, always, a clear path for freight to pass through without delay?

If, for example, a westbound train approaches the station and there is already a eastbound train at the platform..it waits east of Brampton until the eastbound train departs?

 

[TOareaFan]

Aldershot-Burlington (shared with the same CN trains through Brampton and more VIA trains) is three mainline tracks (though Aldershot, where 95% of GO weekday trains terminate past Burlington, has four platforms). That's with 30 minute service. I call bullshit on needing four tracks.

Amtrak has one daily round trip (7 RTs a week), but it operates with VIA crews through Oakville and Grimsby Subdivisions.

I did too.

 

[TOareaFan]

yes essentially, DT Brampton is the bottleneck. VIA operates a lot, but the lakeshore corridor also experiences serious delays at the singular 2 track portion left on the line. AMTRACK operates only a couple of times a week IIRC.

Sorry, are you saying that there is still a stretch of 2 track there? Yet they can run half hourly service?

 

[innsertnamehere]

they issued the contract a month ago to upgrade it to 3 tracks, but yes, there is 2 tracks there. As I said, there is essentially no freight at that point. It is all about scheduling, and we simply cannot know the schedules are other than speculation.

 

[ShonTron]

Sorry, are you saying that there is still a stretch of 2 track there? Yet they can run half hourly service?

Galloway Road to Durham Junction is two tracks and has the most VIA revenue operations (compared to LSW and Georgetown), and has local and express trains and a station (Rouge Hill). Yep, it has 30 minute service! The GO-only tracks from Pickering to Oshawa are also just double tracked.

 

[TOareaFan]

Galloway Road to Durham Junction is two tracks and has the most VIA revenue operations (compared to LSW and Georgetown), and has local and express trains and a station (Rouge Hill). Yep, it has 30 minute service! The GO-only tracks from Pickering to Oshawa are also just double tracked.

So, the situation at Brampton sounds manageable...no?

 

[reaperexpress]

Galloway Road to Durham Junction is two tracks and has the most VIA revenue operations (compared to LSW and Georgetown), and has local and express trains and a station (Rouge Hill). Yep, it has 30 minute service! The GO-only tracks from Pickering to Oshawa are also just double tracked.

I think that the main difference is that the Kingston Subdivision through Rouge Hill is owned by Metrolinx, while the Halton Subdivision through Brampton is owned by CN. I would not expect CN to be supportive of more GO trains, since it impedes their operational flexibility.

With almost exclusively passenger operations such as through Rouge Hill, it is easy to operate at or near the maximum capacity of the line (as they are doing now), since train movements are scheduled months in advance. I'm not very familiar with freight operations, but I think they tend to be more variable.

The GO-only tracks through Durham are irrelevant to this discussion, since they have a completely uniform operation. They are only used by all-stops GO trains, so capacity is limited only by minimum headway and turnaround time at Oshawa.

 

[Hipster Duck]

The Sonoma Marin Area Rapid Transit (SMART) released this photo of their car being assembled. These DMUs are part of the same order and give you an idea of how these things look in the flesh.

link

 

[gweed123]

If there are quite a few hurdles to triple-tracking through Brampton (bridge replacements, etc), would it not be easier for Metrolinx to build a freight bypass through the 407 ROW?That would have the effect of potentially relieving both the Kitchener line and the Milton line (assuming that track sharing arrangements can be negotiated). I'm not sure what the relationship between CN and CP is in terms of sharing track, but I think that if CN could be convinced to let CP use their York Sub (I think that's the name of it, the line that runs E-W just north of Steeles), then both major freight companies could have a single bypass line for Toronto, which would free up an enormous amount of track for commuter rail service.

 

[k10ery]

The Globe has a story on Mike Layton's efforts re TTC-GO integration.

As a second step, Mr. Layton is asking that Metrolinx consider adding a stop on the existing GO line to the north of Liberty Village – the Georgetown line that will also provide service to the airport.

Metrolinx, in its letter, also agrees to study the potential of a future stop.

Sounds like a bit of movement from Metrolinx? I think they had previously said a Queen/King stop was impossible because of the grade or the curve?

 

[innsertnamehere]

A Strachan stop would be impossible, but there is a large straight stretch of track directly south of King that could fit a stop. Also note that this stop would be for regular GO trains, not UPX trains, which I believe is what councillors were requesting to stop previously. This is an attempt to relieve the King streetcar, not some vain attempt to make the UPX some deformed type of metro line.

 

[ShonTron]

The Globe has a story on Mike Layton's efforts re TTC-GO integration.



Sounds like a bit of movement from Metrolinx? I think they had previously said a Queen/King stop was impossible because of the grade or the curve?

It was the curve, as I remember. However, GO has been dealing with blind curves elsewhere, such as Newmarket, by installing monitors that the CSR can view to ensure all doors are clear before closing them. It can be done.