TOareaFan
Superstar
According to the Minister of Transportation, not having a subway makes you a second class citizen so maybe people just don't want to be second class citizens in a first class city?
Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited
According to the Minister of Transportation, not having a subway makes you a second class citizen so maybe people just don't want to be second class citizens in a first class city?
Markster
Senior Member
Looking at taxi fares from Pearson:
to Downtown - $53
to Bloor/Dundas - $44
to Weston - $33
I could easily see using a flat fare when the proposal was simply downtown+Bloor. Particularly since the Bloor station will have the value-add of being 'closer' to everyone arriving by the Bloor subway.
But with Weston, if they plan to have anyone actually use the service there, they will want to introduce distance fares.
TOareaFan
Superstar
So, if we make two assumptions....1) cabs get a 10% tip (does not seem that unreasonable)....2) a flat UPX fare of $25
The three stations are (using your order from above)...57%, 48% and 31% cheaper than a cab......so they are all cheaper but only the discount to cab changes....they may have fare by distance but I don't they have to.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
i seriously doubt it will be $25 either, I'm thinking closer to $15.
also, the train would be way faster than a cab, and you get free wifi for the trip.
also, the train would be way faster than a cab, and you get free wifi for the trip.
TOareaFan
Superstar
Not sure why a faster, more comfortable, more predictable mode has to be 50% - 75% cheaper than the less comfortable, less reliable, less predictable, slower competition?
W. K. Lis
Superstar
...
Notice the cylindrical pillars to the left of the photo? I think they are for foundations for future catenary contact wire poles.
ssiguy2
Senior Member
The fares remember do not include the TTTC fare needed to actually get to Union/Bloor/Weston.
No person who works at Pearson or area could ever afford this line but their needs are irrelevant and Metrolinx has even told them the line is not for them hence they calling in their video people who ride the train not patrons or users but "guests". When was the last time Metrolinx ever referred to transit users as guests?
Denver is in the middle of building it's airport line and will be open at roughly the same time using existing rail corridors with a spur like UPX except their's is electrified and can be used with the same fare as the regular bus for the area. That is what Toronto should have instead of a useless line which will have very low ridership.
No person who works at Pearson or area could ever afford this line but their needs are irrelevant and Metrolinx has even told them the line is not for them hence they calling in their video people who ride the train not patrons or users but "guests". When was the last time Metrolinx ever referred to transit users as guests?
Denver is in the middle of building it's airport line and will be open at roughly the same time using existing rail corridors with a spur like UPX except their's is electrified and can be used with the same fare as the regular bus for the area. That is what Toronto should have instead of a useless line which will have very low ridership.
drum118
Superstar
Yes you are right. They have done the same thing on the UPX elevated section at the airport. Any new structure being these days will have support built for catenary.
Platform 27
Active Member
Denver's trips to the airport will be priced at the the same level as the direct motorcoach service operated today, not their basic municipal bus price. Denver's line has far more in common with Union Pearson Express than it does with a subway:
Code:
============================YYZ========DEN
Avg Station Spacing: 8.3 km 6.1 km
Avg Speed: 60 km/h 60 km/h
Headway: 15 min 15 min
Base system fare: $3.00 $2.25
Airport fare: $25? $11?Toronto's could quite likely have put up identical numbers if, like in the states, there was a huge federal support to pay for electrification and acceptance of 30% farebox recovery rates.
Considering Denver has much better traffic than us and the total distance from downtown to the airport is nearly 50% greater (over which the direct downtown-to-airport freeway opens up more of a time lead), I suspect their new rail link may not as be as attractive as ours when it comes to attracting a significant share of airport traffic. In relative terms to the comparable cab journey, they'll have an inferior product that's consistently slower and not much more reliable, so their price needs to be lower.
Denver's line will of course carry a lot of local riders, but bear in mind there isn't a GO filling that role there -- both markets are rolled into one service rather than split as is the plan here.
khris
Senior Member
Cabs are overpriced. We all know that.
christiesplits
Senior Member
I seem to be in the minority thinking the fare could push $30.00. This has white elephant written all over it.
doady
Senior Member
But it's faster, more comfortable, more predictable than a taxi. It should be priced at least $70.00.
rbt
Senior Member
"A white elephant is an idiom for a valuable but burdensome possession of which its owner cannot dispose and whose cost (particularly cost of upkeep) is out of proportion to its usefulness or worth."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_elephant
If they can get ridership with a $30 fare, it's not a white elephant. High farebox recovery rate is, in fact, the opposite.
A white elephant would be a $1B line to the airport charging a $3 fare with ridership of 200 per hour.
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ssiguy2
Senior Member
So I guess according to Wikipedia it's not a white elephant but that doesn't change the fact that public money is being built for a non-public transit system that will not make a dent in Torontonians long commute including to the airport.
White Elephant?......perhaps not but certainly a grotesque waste of taxpayer money and an affront to the long suffering commuters of Toronto who's only experience of this train will be being able to smell the exhaust of it's diesel engines passing their houses and having to wait for another packed bus in te rain while people with money get to enjoy the largess of the public taxes.
White Elephant?......perhaps not but certainly a grotesque waste of taxpayer money and an affront to the long suffering commuters of Toronto who's only experience of this train will be being able to smell the exhaust of it's diesel engines passing their houses and having to wait for another packed bus in te rain while people with money get to enjoy the largess of the public taxes.
nfitz
Superstar
It will be a public system, run by Metrolinx. Do you think GO Buses and GO Trains aren't a public service?
The plan for it to be a non-public service ended years ago, when the Union-Pearson group dropped out.