Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

ssiguy2 said:
So I guess according to Wikipedia it's not a white elephant but that doesn't change the fact that public money is being built for a non-public transit system that will not make a dent in Torontonians long commute including to the airport.
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The Blue 22 version was private. This current iteration is public. I'm not sure if it has a profit mandate or if it can operate at the same subsidy rate as a GO route, but it certainly is not privately owned.
 
gweed123 said:
The Blue 22 version was private. This current iteration is public. I'm not sure if it has a profit mandate or if it can operate at the same subsidy rate as a GO route, but it certainly is not privately owned.
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My understanding this route has to be 100% cost recovery. Why should we have to pay for it when we can't get funding for our other service?

You ride it, you pickup the full cost to operate as well maintain it.

If we riders are to cover the cost over runs, better low the fare so we can ride it.
 
drum118 said:
My understanding this route has to be 100% cost recovery. Why should we have to pay for it when we can't get funding for our other service?

You ride it, you pickup the full cost to operate as well maintain it.

If we riders are to cover the cost over runs, better low the fare so we can ride it.
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Well we still don't know what the fare will end up being. If it's in the same ballpark as a GO fare for a similar distance, I figured it could potentially operate on the same cost recovery ratio as a GO line.

But if the fare is higher than GO, yes it does certainly make sense that it needs to break even.
 
gweed123 said:
Well we still don't know what the fare will end up being. If it's in the same ballpark as a GO fare for a similar distance, I figured it could potentially operate on the same cost recovery ratio as a GO line.

But if the fare is higher than GO, yes it does certainly make sense that it needs to break even.
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Do all GO services run on the same cost recovery model now?
 
they run at above 80% cost recovery, (the highest for any transit agency in NA) but I expect that to drop as GO starts to increase more all day 2 way service in the coming years. Wouldn't be surprised if it drops below 80% this year because of the 1/2 hour service on the lakeshore lines.
 
innsertnamehere said:
they run at above 80% cost recovery, (the highest for any transit agency in NA) but I expect that to drop as GO starts to increase more all day 2 way service in the coming years. Wouldn't be surprised if it drops below 80% this year because of the 1/2 hour service on the lakeshore lines.
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Right....overall GO operates at an 80% cost recovery rate....but we all know that within that there are lines/services within that which do better than that and lines/services within that which do worse.....just not sure why the UPE would have to cover all its costs just because it charges higher than, say, Union to Malton fares (I think the airport is in the same fare zone as the Malton GO).
 
you are correct about certain routre doing better than others, but all rush hour trains "pull a profit" for them. it is really only the off peak lakeshore trains and buses that lose money.
 
innsertnamehere said:
you are correct about certain routre doing better than others, but all rush hour trains "pull a profit" for them. it is really only the off peak lakeshore trains and buses that lose money.
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Exactly (although I am not sure how much the buses lose)......no one holds those services to the same standards of fare recovery as the rush hour trains because they are viewed as an integral part of the transportation system....why can't the UPE be looked at the same way? If, say, they were charging $20 per trip...why would that service be held to a 100% cost recovery when other parts of the system don't achieve the 80% overall target?
 
Metrolinx has determine the the $5m price tag to build an east tunnel connection as well [FONT=&quot]the PPUDO[/FONT] at Weston Station is not be best use of funds for that station at this time. It will still allow for future expansion for the east side as plan.

Part of the issues has to do with the EMS and fire department on that side.

The station is to be completed in 2015 and behind schedule. Lack of funds has to do with the various cost overruns for the current projects for the line as well being close to 6 months behind schedule in a number of areas.

You can see the master plan here [FONT=&quot] http://goweb02.gotransit.com/gts/en/docs/20120919_Final_Weston_Station_Master_Plan.pdf.


[/FONT]
 
TOareaFan said:
Do all GO services run on the same cost recovery model now?
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Not necessarily all, but all new ones that have been proposed and introduced over the past 10 years, yes.

There is a metric that they use, but I don't know how it is configured or at what point they will then decide that a potential route becomes feasible.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
smallspy said:
Not necessarily all, but all new ones that have been proposed and introduced over the past 10 years, yes.

There is a metric that they use, but I don't know how it is configured or at what point they will then decide that a potential route becomes feasible.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
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So when a (hypothetical) service carries on average 350 passengers per train and has its service level doubled....we are to read into that that 80% of the cost of that service is being recovered? That does not seem to ring true....but maybe.
 
gweed123 said:
Well we still don't know what the fare will end up being. If it's in the same ballpark as a GO fare for a similar distance, I figured it could potentially operate on the same cost recovery ratio as a GO line.

But if the fare is higher than GO, yes it does certainly make sense that it needs to break even.
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GO recovers 80% of its OPERATING costs. But the promise is that UPE will recover 100% of its OPERATING AND CAPITAL costs. The BCA said that would require about a $30 fare, and even then cost recovery is an unlikely proposition -- if ridership is low.

A train that nobody rides but takes up 2 tracks is my definition of a white elephant, sure enough.
 
k10ery said:
GO recovers 80% of its OPERATING costs. But the promise is that UPE will recover 100% of its OPERATING AND CAPITAL costs. The BCA said that would require about a $30 fare, and even then cost recovery is an unlikely proposition -- if ridership is low.

A train that nobody rides but takes up 2 tracks is my definition of a white elephant, sure enough.
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You would have to define "nobody rides"
 
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