Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

[MisterF]

How exactly?

I live in Brampton and love the fact it takes only 45 minutes on a good day to get to Union. I fear a S-Bahn might lengthen my commute. Furthermore can the corridor even handle VIA, GO, freight and Blue 22 all at once?

Keep in mind that small electric trains can accelerate and decelerate a lot faster than big diesel trains. And it's a big corridor.

Would Weston passengers be willing to spend $15 to ride downtown? Otherwise they're taking away a seat from someone paying $20, a price which is necessary to make the service cover its purpose. As people endlessly berated MikeToronto, you can't run an premium express service without charging a premium fare.

It's not like Lavalin is going to own these track improvements. The government will indeed be building them for free -- but for CN. They'll simply be operating a transit service, and will have to make a profit from it, too.

The EA is shared between GO and the airport link. GO will be able to use the many track improvements and level crossing projects that will be built as part of the airport link project.

If the Lavalin project doesn't work, the only loser in the whole thing will be Lavalin. The airport express will be gone, and we'll be left with a massively-improved Weston sub, all federally funded.

Extra stops on an express train to the airport would clearly not be economically viable. Why would they stop at Weston (or anywhere else) when there will only be a half-dozen people a day getting on?

A private company with the profit motive will almost certainly do a much better job of providing an attractive airport express service.

Chances are the fare would be cheaper than $20 if the service makes more stops. I have a feeling we'll be seeing zoned fares in the GTA anyway. Expecting to get a fast ride downtown from the airport for a TTC fare is ridiculous. I don't see why you think only a half dozen people a day will use the Weston station. Especially if it's a frequent S-bahn service, thousands of people in the west end will stop taking the bus to the Bloor or Spadina lines and take the closer Weston line.

From my home in Riverdale, I doubt if taking the 504 or 505 streetcar downtown to Union Station - in order to make a 22 minute journey to the airport - would be much quicker than my usual route: a bus up Pape to the subway, then across to Kipling, and the 192 Airport Rocket. Blue 22 will be ideal for tourists and condo dwellers who live in the downtown core though.

But a subway ride to Dundas West and a rail trip up the Weston sub would probably be faster. If it makes 5-10 stops between Union and Pearson it would be very useful local transit.

 

[unimaginative2]

Keep in mind that small electric trains can accelerate and decelerate a lot faster than big diesel trains. And it's a big corridor.

Absolutely. S-Bahn style service is about frequency, so I don't get how that would somehow hurt travel time. It's also ideally about electrification, which as you say means faster acceleration and shorter travel times.

Chances are the fare would be cheaper than $20 if the service makes more stops. I have a feeling we'll be seeing zoned fares in the GTA anyway. Expecting to get a fast ride downtown from the airport for a TTC fare is ridiculous. I don't see why you think only a half dozen people a day will use the Weston station. Especially if it's a frequent S-bahn service, thousands of people in the west end will stop taking the bus to the Bloor or Spadina lines and take the closer Weston line.

Yes, but then it couldn't be a premium express service that will attract people away from the cabs and the road. It also couldn't offer checked baggage. There is no reason why a frequent, S-Bahn style suburban rail service can't exist in parallel with an express train to the airport with checked baggage and ample seating.

 

[299 bloor call control.]

Trudeau airport is getting a diversion of the rail line and an express train to downtown. A people mover to the GO line in Toronto is an obvious temporary choice, sort of like OrlyVAL.

Not to mention similar to the JFK AirTrain. Come to think of it, if we compare ourselves to NYC so much, why don't we do it this time? LaGuardia has horrible transit access... JFK is a long subway ride to the AirTrain

 

[unimaginative2]

Unfortunately the JFK Express failed because it didn't go straight to the terminal. You're right about the Airtrain, though they now want to extend it right to Lower Manhattan from Jamaica.

 

[ShonTron]

I just took a light rail train from the airport, 10 stations and 28 minutes later, I was two blocks from my hotel. The cost? US $1.60. Thank you MTA Maryland! (and that's one more Metro system visited!)

Though I was one of two people with luggage from BWI to Downtown Baltimore, but there were actually quite a few airport workers. I'll see what it's like at the BWI Amtrak/MARC station on Monday.

I'm not sure that Blue22 would take that many taxis off the roads. Plus, automatically, once you get two people in the taxi, the taxi is usually cheaper.

And I don't think checked baggage service is such a great feature. Especially when so many flights are transborder. And if the station at Pearson is so close to the check-in counters, why would it matter so much?

 

[MisterF]

Yes, but then it couldn't be a premium express service that will attract people away from the cabs and the road. It also couldn't offer checked baggage. There is no reason why a frequent, S-Bahn style suburban rail service can't exist in parallel with an express train to the airport with checked baggage and ample seating.

It might not attract the business class travellers, but it would probably attract everyday travellers. True, suburban rail and an express train can co-exist, but if we have the choice of one or the other I'd rather have the suburban rail option. An express train can always come later. Who knows, maybe the EA will recommend both.

 

[nicetommy]

Feds back high-speed train to Pearson

Lack of transit link between Toronto airport, downtown embarrassing: Cannon

Dec 07, 2007 05:24 PM
THE CANADIAN PRESS

It's an embarrassment that Canada's busiest airport still isn't linked to Toronto's downtown core by public transit, and getting it done should be a priority, federal Transport Minister Lawrence Cannon said today.

In a speech to the Toronto Board of Trade, Cannon called it unbelievable that a world-class city like Toronto doesn't have the transit infrastructure that's so common in big cities around the world.

"It's an embarrassment, I do believe that, and I hope the government of Ontario will see fit to change their mind on that," Cannon later said in an interview.

The provincial government has allowed an environmental assessment to get bogged down for two years now and has dragged its heels on a project that could reduce gridlock, he said.

He said the province should do whatever it takes to get the important project launched, and could pursue a public-private partnership like the $2-billion Canada Line rail-based rapid transit service linking downtown Vancouver to its airport and beyond to Richmond, B.C.

Cannon's Ontario counterpart, Jim Bradley, said he wants to build the rail link, but it hasn't been the province's highest priority. He questioned whether Cannon should be telling the province what it should build, and when.

"I try not to suggest what the federal government's No. 1 priority should be and I think provinces are best able to determine what their priorities are," Bradley said.

"It's always nice that when a federal minister comes to town to make those kinds of pronouncements that he comes with a cheque as well."

Metrolinx, an organization that was tasked by the Ontario government to help map the province's transit future, is recommending that the airport project be launched.

Chairman Rob MacIsaac said the project is outside the scope of Metrolinx's mandate since there's already been a lot of discussions and planning, but he hopes it will go ahead as soon as possible.

"Metrolinx does recognize that having a rail link in the region is an important link for this city region going forward. ... In our view, this is an important project and it ought to proceed expeditiously."

Even though the project has been talked about for years, it's not overly surprising that it still hasn't been built, MacIsaac said.

"City building is never tidy. There's always lots of different viewpoints and concerns that have to be taken into account, so it's not something you can build always exactly according to the schedule you might like to."

A spokeswoman for Ontario's Ministry of the Environment said the government is committed to the project but is currently reviewing community concerns about whether a health and safety risk is posed by high-speed trains going through residential areas.

 

[Dan416]

I love how the federal government is complaining about the lack of a link between Union and Pearson, but they won't even fund the TTC's funding priorities. Ridiculous.

 

[Hipster Duck]

Not to mention similar to the JFK AirTrain. Come to think of it, if we compare ourselves to NYC so much, why don't we do it this time? LaGuardia has horrible transit access... JFK is a long subway ride to the AirTrain

LGA is a hole; if they could expand Newark and JFK they should just redevelop that land for billions. You can take the AirTrain to Jamaica and cross over to the very well appointed Jamaica station on the LIRR where it's a 30 minute ride to Penn station every 10 minutes or so.

Your best bet is EWR (newark), where there is a very convenient NJ transit station on the NE corridor that takes you to Penn station in about 20 minutes.

In a speech to the Toronto Board of Trade, Cannon called it unbelievable that a world-class city like Toronto doesn't have the transit infrastructure that's so common in big cities around the world.

"It's an embarrassment, I do believe that, and I hope the government of Ontario will see fit to change their mind on that," Cannon later said in an interview.

Wow. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

 

[RedRocket191]

I love how the federal government is complaining about the lack of a link between Union and Pearson, but they won't even fund the TTC's funding priorities. Ridiculous.

The truth is that the Harper government wants every transit project they fund to have some sort of P3 component to it (or at least a study done to see how much P3 can be crammed in there). That's a matter of public record.

Since the Union Pearson link is going to be private, are we surprised that funding for it is flowing so quickly?

Since extending the subway will only use private companies in the construction phase at most, are we really surprised that funding is so slow?

The inconvenient truth is that we can kick and scream all we want, but we're going to have to find some way to play ball.

Having said that, there's nothing saying we can't find ways to bend the rules just a little in the game.

 

[unimaginative2]

The PANYNJ should be undertaking a full top-to-bottom rebuilding of JFK, just like Mayor Daley's doing at O'Hare. They could squeeze tens of millions more people through on that site.

 

[ganjavih]

I hear there are rumours that the PATH transit will be extended to Newark Airport. Then for sure Newark would be the airport to fly into.

 

[UrbanAffair]

Yeah Newark is quick, very good access to the city from there. I always fly to Newark, plus tends to be cheaper than the other ports, least from my experience

 

[nfitz]

The Ontario IEA won't be finished for another couple of years ... or more at this rate. I think the chances that Harper is still PM in early 2010 are pretty slim.

 

[p5connex]

let the thing die already- I would rather no connection than the one they are proposing with Blue22! No matter how you slice it, public transit will never get the needed respect it deserves in order to become something of significance in this city. No one wants to pay and no one wants to possibly lose their cushy job over it..Play it safe - keep your jobs.

boring.

p5