scarberiankhatru
Senior Member
I would agree with poppajojo that image is not very important in Toronto, where there's a live and let live vibe permitting you to do, wear, say, etc., pretty much anything.
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Toronto Tourism
- Thread starter 3cp1
- Start date
Bogtrotter
Senior Member
"As some have mentioned Toronto definitely does not have a reality problem--just a marketing problem. "
Good post by allaboutmatt, I certainly agree with a lot of it. I think the above statement is definitely true, and I think a lot of TO's negative press is based on old preconceptions of the city which increasingly no longer apply. It certainly is painful to hear from people abroad that still perceive Toronto as dull and corporate- 'yikes where have you been?'- and Montreal as more vibrant and cosmopolitan. So I agree that a lot of it is marketing and making the world more aware of Toronto.
But I think Toronto's appeal abroad is something that is going to take a lot of time to evolve. Montreal has a more mature image as a city abroad- as does Chicago. Perceptions of places are often based on the arts, culture, and food that are inherently associated with the city or region. This is something that can't be fixed- it has to develope over time.
"Let me explain what I mean, in the North American context, based on now almost 5 years of living in the US. If you take New York out of the equation (and you should, since it is and will remain in its own, very small international league with London) there is not a single city on the continent--not one--with as much going for it as TO."
True to some extent, although I'm sure there are millions in Chicago, San Fran, NYC, Los Angeles and Montreal who would beg to differ
Toronto is a very well rounded city in that it has a little bit of everything that most cities in NA can't boast. But people's perception of cities as travel destinations are not based on their livibility or how well-rounded they are. The fact is that Toronto IS competing today and tomorrow with these cities for tourist dollars, so Toronto does need to concentrate on things that it doesn't do well. Aesthetics imho is definitely one of them, particularly in the form of beatification projects, develope it's natural assets such as the waterfront, improve quality of architecture, adding and improving cultural attractions and parklands, and perhaps by including one or two unique attractions that can't be found in these other cities. Another idea might be to dedicate a pedestrian street somewhere downtown to restaurants etc. These are the things that TO needs to continue to do in order to maintain pace and compete with the likes of Chicago and Montreal. But i agree that TO is definitely on the right track but, again, there are also definitely areas where the city is lacking and not doing as good a job as others.
Good post by allaboutmatt, I certainly agree with a lot of it. I think the above statement is definitely true, and I think a lot of TO's negative press is based on old preconceptions of the city which increasingly no longer apply. It certainly is painful to hear from people abroad that still perceive Toronto as dull and corporate- 'yikes where have you been?'- and Montreal as more vibrant and cosmopolitan. So I agree that a lot of it is marketing and making the world more aware of Toronto.
But I think Toronto's appeal abroad is something that is going to take a lot of time to evolve. Montreal has a more mature image as a city abroad- as does Chicago. Perceptions of places are often based on the arts, culture, and food that are inherently associated with the city or region. This is something that can't be fixed- it has to develope over time.
"Let me explain what I mean, in the North American context, based on now almost 5 years of living in the US. If you take New York out of the equation (and you should, since it is and will remain in its own, very small international league with London) there is not a single city on the continent--not one--with as much going for it as TO."
True to some extent, although I'm sure there are millions in Chicago, San Fran, NYC, Los Angeles and Montreal who would beg to differ
Toronto is a very well rounded city in that it has a little bit of everything that most cities in NA can't boast. But people's perception of cities as travel destinations are not based on their livibility or how well-rounded they are. The fact is that Toronto IS competing today and tomorrow with these cities for tourist dollars, so Toronto does need to concentrate on things that it doesn't do well. Aesthetics imho is definitely one of them, particularly in the form of beatification projects, develope it's natural assets such as the waterfront, improve quality of architecture, adding and improving cultural attractions and parklands, and perhaps by including one or two unique attractions that can't be found in these other cities. Another idea might be to dedicate a pedestrian street somewhere downtown to restaurants etc. These are the things that TO needs to continue to do in order to maintain pace and compete with the likes of Chicago and Montreal. But i agree that TO is definitely on the right track but, again, there are also definitely areas where the city is lacking and not doing as good a job as others.b13
New Member
I'm predicting by 2010-2012 Toronto will finally be known as a mature city with everyhing to offer!!! C'mon just look at what Toronto is building to create this image! Look at Filmport and the wonderful community that is going to be built down there, it will be a must see tourist spot when down because of everything that will happen there. Look at the new Festival Centre that is being built is will be a state of the art building! It will raise the profile of TIFF and Toronto even higher! Look at all the 5 star hotels being built in Toronto, it just shows you that these people see and know that Toronto will turn out to be a must see city in the future! Look at our waterfront that is actually turning into a nice walkable waterfront with more attractions to come! Toronto's downtown business community is on a revival from decades of hardly any office contruction and now there are numerous office towers in construction and proposed!! Toronto's art scene is really booming with everything going and it is really amazing!! Tourism Toronto better be ready to market Toronto properly when all these amazing construction sites are finished etc. Once we can come up with the right marketing campaigns Toronto will be unstoppable! But one thing that Toronto can do to get really big publicity is to be featured in more big budget movies!! We need to offer a tax break for films that acutally film in Toronto use Toronto as Toronto. And also offer a tax brack for films that showcase Toronto's main attractions, C.N Tower, Dundas Square(when finished), Distillery District(when finishes), entertainment district, some of Toronto's ethnic neighbourhoods etc. By doing this we can get a MASSIVE audience to experience Toronto on the movie screen and will get them saying "oh I would love to see that" How do you think Times Square became so popular?!?!? It's because of all the big films it has been featured in! Well thats just my 2 cents but is there any way we can get this message out to tourism Toronto of to the government Toronto and Ontario?
syn
Senior Member
"As some have mentioned Toronto definitely does not have a reality problem--just a marketing problem. "
Good post by allaboutmatt, I certainly agree with a lot of it. I think the above statement is definitely true, and I think a lot of TO's negative press is based on old preconceptions of the city which increasingly no longer apply. It certainly is painful to hear from people abroad that still perceive Toronto as dull and corporate- 'yikes where have you been?'- and Montreal as more vibrant and cosmopolitan. So I agree that a lot of it is marketing and making the world more aware of Toronto.
But I think Toronto's appeal abroad is something that is going to take a lot of time to evolve. Montreal has a more mature image as a city abroad- as does Chicago. Perceptions of places are often based on the arts, culture, and food that are inherently associated with the city or region. This is something that can't be fixed- it has to develope over time.
"Let me explain what I mean, in the North American context, based on now almost 5 years of living in the US. If you take New York out of the equation (and you should, since it is and will remain in its own, very small international league with London) there is not a single city on the continent--not one--with as much going for it as TO."
True to some extent, although I'm sure there are millions in Chicago, San Fran, NYC, Los Angeles and Montreal who would beg to differ
I agree with both you and allaboutmatt. Great posts.
buildup
Senior Member
There have been some great points made about branding, where New York has conciously excelled. I live in Toronto but I have a better understanding of the New York's brand than I do of Toronto's or Montreal where I was born.
Examples:
Upper East side: grand mansions from the guilded age, high end residential, museums, old (white) money
Upper West side: hip, good eating, younger, heavily gentrified now, Sienfeld
Central Park: greatest urban park in thge world by Olmstead
Harlem: 110th street, clubs, soul of urban African-American culture, the Apollo etc
Tribeca: Triangle between Bleeker & Canal: original warehouse district, clubs, whatever...
Soho: South of Houston - fashion, hot models, galleries, food
Times Square: obvious
Wall Street: center of the financial universe
Lower East side: original Italian mob, immigrant center
etc
I'm not listing all this to suggest I'm a New York expert as nearly anyone on this board could so a better job. I'm simply showing that New York has been very sucessful at creating sub-brands as strong as the top brand. And they are continuing to evolve them conciously. These brands help people conceptualize, organize and plan their experience.
That is where Toronto has some work to do. At the same timre we need to be realistic and play to our strengths - and I'm doubtful historic areas like the Distillery District will cut it for international travellers.
That said we should build on our brands (Beaches, Bloor/Yorkville, Queen West etc) and identify for visitors what their experience will be in each place.
Finally, one problem with "great neighbourhoods" is that while most of us would enjoy a stroll through Leslieville for example, I'd be hesitant to recommend it to an out of towner who is probably looking for more impact.
On anothe thread there was an outstanding post which I can't find about some of the unque qualities that Toronto can build on which we largely ingore including the Don Valley Ravine, and the Islands.
Examples:
Upper East side: grand mansions from the guilded age, high end residential, museums, old (white) money
Upper West side: hip, good eating, younger, heavily gentrified now, Sienfeld
Central Park: greatest urban park in thge world by Olmstead
Harlem: 110th street, clubs, soul of urban African-American culture, the Apollo etc
Tribeca: Triangle between Bleeker & Canal: original warehouse district, clubs, whatever...
Soho: South of Houston - fashion, hot models, galleries, food
Times Square: obvious
Wall Street: center of the financial universe
Lower East side: original Italian mob, immigrant center
etc
I'm not listing all this to suggest I'm a New York expert as nearly anyone on this board could so a better job. I'm simply showing that New York has been very sucessful at creating sub-brands as strong as the top brand. And they are continuing to evolve them conciously. These brands help people conceptualize, organize and plan their experience.
That is where Toronto has some work to do. At the same timre we need to be realistic and play to our strengths - and I'm doubtful historic areas like the Distillery District will cut it for international travellers.
That said we should build on our brands (Beaches, Bloor/Yorkville, Queen West etc) and identify for visitors what their experience will be in each place.
Finally, one problem with "great neighbourhoods" is that while most of us would enjoy a stroll through Leslieville for example, I'd be hesitant to recommend it to an out of towner who is probably looking for more impact.
On anothe thread there was an outstanding post which I can't find about some of the unque qualities that Toronto can build on which we largely ingore including the Don Valley Ravine, and the Islands.
Roundabout
Senior Member
Here are a few ideas on making Toronto more attractive to tourists:
1. Fist of all, making Toronto more liveable for Torontonians (that includes better transit, more parks, etc.) would make it more attractive to tourists. Kind of like keeping your house clean with a well-stocked fridge and a bar makes it more inviting to guests.
2. Marketing campaigns should target different demographic groups. Things that would interest a single 20something would be different from things interesting to families with kids. Also, have specific marketing campaigns based on what different interests: if you are interested in food, we have hundreds of great restaurants and wineries an hour drive away. If it’s theatre/dance/live music you are into, we have tonnes of that: from small independent and community run to the National Ballet and Canadian Opera Company.
3. I think it’s a bit unrealistic to compete with cities like Paris or London, especially in terms of architecture and historical significance. Maybe once Toronto has been around for 800 years, we can try to do that.
4. On a recent trip to Europe, a friend of mine commented that maybe Toronto needs a benevolent dictator who is interested in arts and architecture to really beautify the city. Pretty much any tourist attraction in Europe (and the rest of the world really) was built by either an egomaniac or a religious organization trying to prove to everybody that he/it was the greatest.
1. Fist of all, making Toronto more liveable for Torontonians (that includes better transit, more parks, etc.) would make it more attractive to tourists. Kind of like keeping your house clean with a well-stocked fridge and a bar
makes it more inviting to guests.2. Marketing campaigns should target different demographic groups. Things that would interest a single 20something would be different from things interesting to families with kids. Also, have specific marketing campaigns based on what different interests: if you are interested in food, we have hundreds of great restaurants and wineries an hour drive away. If it’s theatre/dance/live music you are into, we have tonnes of that: from small independent and community run to the National Ballet and Canadian Opera Company.
3. I think it’s a bit unrealistic to compete with cities like Paris or London, especially in terms of architecture and historical significance. Maybe once Toronto has been around for 800 years, we can try to do that.
4. On a recent trip to Europe, a friend of mine commented that maybe Toronto needs a benevolent dictator who is interested in arts and architecture to really beautify the city. Pretty much any tourist attraction in Europe (and the rest of the world really) was built by either an egomaniac or a religious organization trying to prove to everybody that he/it was the greatest.
lordmandeep
Banned
London will be approaching 2800 years by then
ganjavih
Senior Member
My opinion about TO is the same as it was several years ago. It's a great city that has almost everything you could want in terms of art, culture, food, shopping, vibrancy, public transportation, etc... and it has a huge unlimited potential. What it severely lacks is visual appeal. The streets, street furniture, sidewalks, parks, buildings, etc. need a huge shot in the arm. Aesthetics and sex appeal should be top priorities.
junctionist
Senior Member
London will be approaching 2800 years by then
Think of the CN Tower and the TD Centre 800 years from now. They'll be valuable visual paradigms of this era. People from around the world still visit New York or Paris even though they could see the pyramids in Egypt.
poppajojo
Active Member
My father lived in NYC for a while, and that's how he strongly feels. I've visited frequently and have many relatives there. If you think style is relegated to fashion victims on one street in NYC maybe you should take a walk along christopher st. and possibly a few other large areas in Manhattan.
poppajojo
Active Member
I agree
RJR123
Active Member
I've been to NYC over a dozen times, walked around every neighbourhood, and know that while you definitely see some very stylish people (as you do in most major cities) by and large they are no further ahead of us. If you want to see a really stylish city, go to London
adma
Superstar
What puzzles me is how TIFF hasn't been the platform for publicizing Toronto as an attractive travel destination that it ought to be--even though from what I can tell, "the stars" seldom have much of anything *negative* to say about the city.
Indeed, they seem to quite like Toronto for the most part, as a place that has enough of that NY/LA/London etc cosmopolitan sophistication without putting on the same kind of airs. Like, we're their "private pleasure"--citywise, the equivalent of a restaurant where the stars *really* go to, as opposed to one where dumb tourists think they go to...
Indeed, they seem to quite like Toronto for the most part, as a place that has enough of that NY/LA/London etc cosmopolitan sophistication without putting on the same kind of airs. Like, we're their "private pleasure"--citywise, the equivalent of a restaurant where the stars *really* go to, as opposed to one where dumb tourists think they go to...
poppajojo
Active Member
No doubt London is stylish, but NYC is definitely more centred around appearance than Toronto. Given the average wealth of residents is far greater than that of Torontonians I wouldn't think it's much of a surprise that New Yorkers on average would be more concerned with something superficial as appearance.
buildup
Senior Member
Don't confuse people in New York with New Yorkers. Probably 50% of those "stylish" people you see strolling around Manhattan are tourists or out of towners.