Toronto St. Clair West Transit Improvements | ?m | ?s | TTC

[Justin10000]

And took out A&P.

 

[RedRocket191]

Prices high enough to piss off my 83 year old Grandmother remain.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

I should worded my post better. I never said neighbourhods suffer because of metros.Why are you putting my name on other members quotes? It looks like I made those quotes. Please correct it.

Still you were part of a discussion with multiple participants on the topic of the effects Metros' have on neighbourhoods vis a vis an LRT. You must have had some knowledge of what had been said prior to your own post.

Furthermore your comment "It's not hard to argue neighbourhoods built around streetcar lines." implies implicit acceptance of the belief that streetcars are better than metros at neighbourhood building. So I feel that my response quoting that post was in context.

For the record I, personally, do make an effort when breaking up another members post to repeat the authers name in every quote box; so anytime I quote something anonomously (i.e. without naming the author) than it means that particular quote does not belong to the auther who I'm responding to. However I know that may not be standard practice so I have edited my post to indicate that they do not belong to you.

 

[Justin10000]

Still you were part of a discussion with multiple participants on the topic of the effects Metros' have on neighbourhoods vis a vis an LRT. You must have had some knowledge of what had been said prior to your own post.

How does saying "there is enough evidence streetcars built vibrant neighnbourhoods"(which is true) suddenly thrust me into the core of the discussion? There is more than enough evidence streetcar lines helped to build neighbourhoods.

Furthermore your comment "It's not hard to argue neighbourhoods built around streetcar lines." implies implicit acceptance of the belief that streetcars are better than metros at neighbourhood building. So I feel that my response quoting that post was in context.

No it doesn't. You're just making a blanket assumption I am against metros. It's basic urban geography. Streetcar companies extended streetcar lines further from the historical CBD, and citizens were able to move further out. They built neighbourhoods along streetcars. It's simple historical fact. Your post is totally out of context.

For the record I, personally, do make an effort when breaking up another members post to repeat the authers name in every quote box; so anytime I quote something anonomously (i.e. without naming the author) than it means that particular quote does not belong to the auther who I'm responding to. However I know that may not be standard practice so I have edited my post to indicate that they do not belong to you.

Thank you. I am not trying to be rude, but I just do not to be credted, or linked with posts that are not mine.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

How does saying "there is enough evidence streetcars built vibrant neighnbourhoods"(which is true) suddenly thrust me into the core of the discussion? There is more than enough evidence streetcar lines helped to build neighbourhoods.



No it doesn't. You're just making a blanket assumption I am against metros. It's basic urban geography. Streetcar companies extended streetcar lines further from the historical CBD, and citizens were able to move further out. They built neighbourhoods along streetcars. It's simple historical fact. Your post is totally out of context.



Thank you. I am not trying to be rude, but I just do not to be credted, or linked with posts that are not mine.

We are getting off topic...

Justin, your post was in response to and directly quoted junctionist's post which stated that streetcars are not a prerequisite to vibrant communites and that many cities have metro only transit networks and still have vibrant communities. You responded by talking about how streetcars were built before metros and how somehow you cannot argue the positive impact streetcars have on communities.

You can argue intent but it seems pretty clear to me that you were implying that streetcars have a more positive impact on communites than metros, and all I've ever said is that the mode of mass rapid transit is not a significant factor in a communities vibrancy. That having a streetcar is not a prerequisite to having a vibrant community, Eglinton has a fairly vibrant community and it has neither a streetcar nor a subway. Heck that's what the discussion was about and that's what Junctionist was responding to.

Cities like London, Rome, Paris, etc all became vibrant cities long before there was ever any form of vehicular transportation. Horse and cow paths were part of the transportation back then, so by your logic because these cities became vibrant when, say, horses and horse drawn carriages allowed expansion beyond what one could walk on foot than these forms of transport played a hand in creating the vibrancy of these cities. So we should go back to horse drawn carriages and camels?

Streetcar neighourhoods might also be considered the first form of sprawl, as they allowed peopl to live further from their place of work. Except it doesn't look like todays sprawl because widespread vehicle ownership had not happened yet, so they were dependant on the streetcar and thus did not live more than a few minutes away from the streetcar line. This created the pockets of density at the community cores that we see as vibrancy, but we can replicate this today with planning and still have even higher densities due to the capacity of a subway system.

I reiterate my point that a streetcar network is not a pre-requisite to having a vibrant community, it is only one component. Subways can also be that component.

 

[W. K. Lis]

I just realized that the St. Clair right-of-way is still not finished. Why? Two bus routes that cross St. Clair Avenue West are officially still on diversion.

41 Keele - City of Toronto roadway modifications
Route diverting at St Clair and Old Weston Road.

The southbound routing of 41B,E KEELE buses will be changed, to avoid a difficult south-to-west turn from Old Weston Road to St Clair Avenue. Buses are now operating south on Keele, west on Rogers Road, south on Weston Road and south on Keele Street.

There is no change to the northbound routing, or to service levels. This routing change is required until modifications can be made to the north-west corner of St Clair Avenue and Old Weston Road.

47 Lansdowne - City of Toronto roadway modifications
Route diverting at St Clair Avenue and Caledonia Road.

The northbound routing of 47B/C (To Yorkdale Station via Caledonia) buses will be temporarily changed, to avoid a difficult right turn from St Clair Avenue to Caledonia Road. Buses will operate north on Lansdowne Avenue, west on Davenport Road, north on Caledonia Park Road, and north on Caledonia Road to route.

There will be no change to the southbound routing, or to service levels. This routing change is required until modifications can be made to the North-East corner of St Clair Avenue and Caledonia Road.

Personally, I would have had the buses in question use the right-of-way.

 

[junctionist]

How can it be finished when a simple bike ride reveals many issues, mostly relating to hydro wires and poles but also shelters and other elements?

 

[Jonny5]

It's these loose ends that cause so much of the blight in the city. Hydro leaves old poles around for 10 years after installing new ones. The TTC leaves old announcements taped to signs and station walls. Utility cuts are never properly patched and left with temporary paving. It's like the city is staffed by a bunch of Al Bundys too lazy to get off the couch and finish a job.
I don't want to let private property owners off the hook though as many seem equally lazy. Vacant storefronts are left in a shambles until a new Tenant moves in. A lot of hoarding is plastered in ten layers of posters. Some home renovations seem to never actually finish with giant dumpsters parked on the grass for a year.

 

[spaced]

Looks like everybody became bored of this project. Does anyone know if the streetcar is running out to the stockyards yet?

Found this on the Torontoist site:
http://torontoist.com/2010/11/rocket_talk_how_come_st_clair_streetcars_stop_so_much.php

Reader Rob Elliott asks:


Why does the new St. Clair LRT line have so many stops? All the potential time-saving benefits of the new right-of-way are lost by the fact that streetcars are forever stopping at traffic lights and every block or two. Surely the public could be convinced that shorter travel times are worth walking an extra couple of blocks. The public has accepted limited stops on the subway. There are twenty-three stops between Keele and Yonge streets on the St. Clair LRT, and just ten on the parallel subway route along Bloor. When I have visited European cities where the streetcars are common, stopping once a kilometre or so seems to be the norm.
TTC Director of Communications Brad Ross says:


The first thing I need to clarify is that the 512 St. Clair streetcar line is not an "LRT" line like the proposed Transit City lines will be, or like those found in Europe. It is a streetcar line and part of the TTC’s legacy network of streetcars. The 512 St. Clair, in fact, serves a distinct community of small businesses and neighbouring residential communities. It just so happens to operate in its own right-of-way, much like the 509 Harbourfront and 510 Spadina streetcars.
I won’t re-hash the debate that has occurred, and continues in some quarters, regarding St. Clair, but there was a tremendous amount of public consultation during the planning of the right-of-way. The TTC heard many opinions, concerns, and suggestions—among them, “do not remove any existing stops.â€
And we didn’t. Save for one.
St. Clair is not a commuter line in the sense that a subway or high capacity LRT line is. St. Clair, on the contrary, is an integral part of the community it serves. By increasing stop-spacing, small businesses that benefit from transit right outside their front door may well face a downturn in foot traffic. In fact, the TTC introduced a timed-transfer to help minimize the impact on local businesses during construction. Making it harder for TTC customers to frequent businesses—i.e. by increasing stop-spacing beyond the 250 metre average now in place—is anathema to community objectives. Every stop is heavily used and relied upon by the community.
Rights-of-way are designed to increase transit reliability as well as speed. Traffic lights were never going to be eliminated, as there is always going to be cross-traffic to contend with. Rights-of-way, however, manage to avoid left-turning vehicles blocking their path, as well as other conditions one sees on mixed-traffic routes, by having transit-only signalization at intersections.
Eliminating or redistributing stops by increasing distances doesn’t improve speed in any significant way. When the new low-floor streetcars arrive, proof-of-payment on all lines will allow for all-door boarding (four doors in total), significantly improving the time spent at a stop.

Improving the line’s reliability and serving the community with frequent service was the TTC’s chief objective with the 512 St. Clair line. While there is speed improvement on the line, the real benefit is a reliable streetcar service that now better serves a vibrant Toronto community.

:/

 

[W. K. Lis]

Looks like everybody became bored of this project. Does anyone know if the streetcar is running out to the stockyards yet?

Found this on the Torontoist site:
http://torontoist.com/2010/11/rocket_talk_how_come_st_clair_streetcars_stop_so_much.php


:/

It has been going out to Gunns Road (the stockyards) since June 30th. Mostly likely ridership stats will come out after December, but I have found that there is a good ridership on the 512 ST. CLAIR. Some of the drivers are learning at what speed to run at to make sure they don't always get a red light, but not all.

 

[Jonny5]

The shelter-top art project pieces are being installed. The works I have seen so far are quite varied in design (sorry no pictures!) They do make the shelters look more interesting and it's nice that every shelter now has a unique design component.
Any other opinions on them?

 

[drum118]

The shelter-top art project pieces are being installed. The works I have seen so far are quite varied in design (sorry no pictures!) They do make the shelters look more interesting and it's nice that every shelter now has a unique design component.
Any other opinions on them?

A number of the shelters had these cheeze art work up in July and they looked like they where done by grade school students. Have a few shots of some of them some where.

 

[taal]

A number of the shelters had these cheeze art work up in July and they looked like they where done by grade school students. Have a few shots of some of them some where.

I saw one closer to avenue and it looked really good - I believe this is more recent so not sure if where you're referring too is something else.

 

[drum118]

I saw one closer to avenue and it looked really good - I believe this is more recent so not sure if where you're referring too is something else.

One was at bathurst another was west of Dufferin.

I was planning on getting better shots months ago, but never got around doing then for the stops that had them up.

 

[taal]

One was at bathurst another was west of Dufferin.

I was planning on getting better shots months ago, but never got around doing then for the stops that had them up.

These went up earlier right ? and they're inside the stop ?

The ones I saw were on top of the shelter all together - a metal structure.