nfitz
Superstar
That seems identical to the article when M II A II R II K posted it over a year ago.
I don't see a single word that has changed ...
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I don't see a single word that has changed ...
spaced
Active Member
"...secretly declared 'war on cars'..."
Are you kidding me, this is a legal document? In a city where our transit is ranking lower by the year? On a street where they re-designed with the hierarchy of importance seemingly being streetcar, cars, pedestrians then lastly bikes? I understand why they are angry, but still...
The updating of this article by NP stinks of 'riling up the base'--not like the other papers don't do that as well.
Are you kidding me, this is a legal document? In a city where our transit is ranking lower by the year? On a street where they re-designed with the hierarchy of importance seemingly being streetcar, cars, pedestrians then lastly bikes? I understand why they are angry, but still...
The updating of this article by NP stinks of 'riling up the base'--not like the other papers don't do that as well.
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Maybe if you hadn't have tried to scuttle the project at every turn, you wouldn't have seen all these delays!
Basically what they're saying is "I'm sueing you because I lost money because of the delay in the project that I caused by trying to sue you to stop the project". Oy vey!
Basically what they're saying is "I'm sueing you because I lost money because of the delay in the project that I caused by trying to sue you to stop the project". Oy vey!
Dan416
Senior Member
Silly nimbys.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Lowest bidder gets the job done... eventually. (But not to quality.)
syn
Senior Member
I haven't had a chance to review the entire thread, but perhaps someone could answer this for me - how much faster is the trip along St. Clair now compared to before the implementation of the ROW?
I was discussing it with a very anti-Miller fellow this weekend who claimed it was $400 million (which is about 4 times the actual cost) and it only improved travel times by 4 minutes. Having travelled with it extensively throughout university, it seems a lot faster now. Even during rush hour, it's quite a smooth, fast ride. Back in the late 90s, getting from Timothy Eaton to St. Clair West could be 10 - 15 minutes on it's own.
I was discussing it with a very anti-Miller fellow this weekend who claimed it was $400 million (which is about 4 times the actual cost) and it only improved travel times by 4 minutes. Having travelled with it extensively throughout university, it seems a lot faster now. Even during rush hour, it's quite a smooth, fast ride. Back in the late 90s, getting from Timothy Eaton to St. Clair West could be 10 - 15 minutes on it's own.
drum118
Superstar
It is too bad I never though of video taping this line before construction, but based on various tapes, it is a 7-10 minute run from Yonge Loop to St Clair West Loop.
It is a 10 to 15 minute run from Lansdowne to St Clair W.
This depends on the time of day, the ridership and traffic lights. Drivers are a real problem, as some run slow while other faster. Slow drivers cause the bunching you see on the route.
I have yet to do a video from Gunns Loop to Lansdowne to say how long the over all trip is from point to point.
The time saving is more than 4 minutes.
Over all, the route is faster than the mix traffic with TTC using less cars and carrying more per car. This increase the cost ratio for the line from what it was before and a better bottom line for operating cost.
Very few cars do the real speed limit in the first place and if so, a faster turn around and better operating cost.
mikeb
New Member
Steve Munro did a pretty good comparison of 2007 to 2010, although it was of different months. To quote from it "There is not much change in the running times from 2007 to 2010 on weekdays." The difference is actually on weekends.
http://stevemunro.ca/?p=4743
My own very unscientific survey of riding mostly during rush hours confirms the above.
As a rider, I like the consistency. Left turns and car accidents do not affect the ROW like they did before. I have much more confidence, than I did in the past, using the 512 when I have an appointment, a meeting or something else that cannot be missed. Plus 4 minutes saved is 8 minutes if you use it to go to work and back home.
http://stevemunro.ca/?p=4743
My own very unscientific survey of riding mostly during rush hours confirms the above.
As a rider, I like the consistency. Left turns and car accidents do not affect the ROW like they did before. I have much more confidence, than I did in the past, using the 512 when I have an appointment, a meeting or something else that cannot be missed. Plus 4 minutes saved is 8 minutes if you use it to go to work and back home.
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junctionist
Senior Member
It feels faster, but Steve Munro says there's not much of a difference. The consistency is great; it no longer feels like a second-rate surface route. The polished urban design at places like Gunn's Loop also gives one that impression. Ridership seems to have grown and will continue to grow as St. Clair becomes more vibrant, like with that massive retail complex at St. Clair and Keele under construction which will employ many people and attract many shoppers. Often, it's standing-room only in the evenings at St. Clair West Station.
syn
Senior Member
Thanks for the responses. Would you guys say the marginal improvments in travel times were worth the investment? I'm thinking when you factor in the increased reliability and safety, along with the potential for improved ridership, it was worth it.
Here's another question...how much longer is the drive along St. Clair?
Here's another question...how much longer is the drive along St. Clair?
Asterix
Active Member
It's not just about decreased travel times. As you mentioned, the reliability factor is a huge impact. I believe Steve Munro's piece shows that the consistency between peak and off-peak travel times are far better now than before, indicating that when you do separate the traffic, you get that reliability.
drum118
Superstar
From my point of view, service is a lot better and faster than before. Traffic flows better and less disruptions. If streetcar travel the speed limit, it would be a lot faster than it is today and well over what was there before. Yes the money was worth it as the whole street looks a lot better.
Buses replace streetcars on St. Clair west of Lansdowne, May 28, 29, 30
This was posted on Transit Toronto site and one has to shake their head about this work.
My comments:
Since the so call small company's keep on getting blame for the work on St Clair and else where, what do people have to say about the Big Boys Contractor, Dufferin Construction who is now doing the 4th repair job on these catch basin?? That 4 rebuilt in 18 months. I have the photos for the first 3, but will not have any for the 4th.
At the same time, did the city make another blunder in their design work again for this project??
If this is Dufferin error, this will be done under the one year warranty they have with the city and will have to eat the cost. If the City is at fault, more money down the drain and someone should be on the firing line.
This is at CP underpass at Keele.
Oh Mr. Ford, that more than the $3,000 you are chasing Adam for.
Buses replace streetcars on St. Clair west of Lansdowne, May 28, 29, 30
This was posted on Transit Toronto site and one has to shake their head about this work.
My comments:
Since the so call small company's keep on getting blame for the work on St Clair and else where, what do people have to say about the Big Boys Contractor, Dufferin Construction who is now doing the 4th repair job on these catch basin?? That 4 rebuilt in 18 months. I have the photos for the first 3, but will not have any for the 4th.
At the same time, did the city make another blunder in their design work again for this project??
If this is Dufferin error, this will be done under the one year warranty they have with the city and will have to eat the cost. If the City is at fault, more money down the drain and someone should be on the firing line.
This is at CP underpass at Keele.
Oh Mr. Ford, that more than the $3,000 you are chasing Adam for.
Jonny5
Senior Member
I was randomly walking on St. Clair yesterday and snapped a pic of the catch basin work. It looked like just this one guy clearing a drain clog. I don't see why streetcar service had to be cancelled. The streetcar lane was unobstructed westbound and was open for cars to use eastbound. Perhaps more was going on Saturday.
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jeff316
Active Member
The streetcar right of way has totally helped revamp St Clair. It's fantastic.
Like the others who said it, the consistency/reliability is the best part. On weekends you feel like you're flying down to Keele it's so fast.
Capacity is sometimes an issue - it gets really busy going east at morning rushhour around Christie, Wychwood, Vaughan, Bathurst and if you're trying to go west during afternoon rushhour each streetcar pretty much fills up with subway passengers at the St Clair subway stop (Yonge)
Driving on St Clair isn't terrible and nowhere near as bad as some people sepculate. The biggest problem is that there are too many stop lights between Bathurst and Landsdowne - Vaughan, Wychwood, Christie, Arlington, Winona, Alberta, Oakwood, Glenholme, Northcliffe, Dufferin, another after that, and then Earlscourt I think. That's 12 stoplights for less than 3 kilometres.
But if I have to go west by car I'd take Davenport, St Clair, Dupont in that order of preference. I'd prefer it to Eglinton anyday.
syn
Senior Member
I'd have to agree with all of this. I'm not sure why some people continue to drive across St. Clair when there are other options. Obviously, there will be people who have to drive down St. Clair...but I know quite a few that complain when they could easily just take Davenport.
With the increased speed and reliability, haven't they increased the number of trips per day to lessen the passenger load for each ride?