Toronto Spadina Subway Extension Emergency Exits | ?m | 1s | TTC | IBI Group


Forumers are reflecting on why the TYSSE took so long, when it is a relatively small project compared to those built in certain other countries. No one is suggesting that Canada is the slowest nation on the planet when it comes to these projects, but rather that it's slow compared to some countries with less robust democratic processes but a lot of public money at their disposal, as well as to some (read: wealthy) countries that are comparable to Canada, i.e. Australia, western European nations. Serbia fits into neither of those categories and is thus a straw man.

https://freedomhouse.org/report/nations-transit/2017/serbia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Serbia
 
"If this were a dictatorship it would be a heck of a lot easier, as long as I'm the dictator." - George W. Bush



They don't promise them, they just go ahead and build them: https://nextshark.com/caojiawan-subway-stop-china/

To be fair, that station is just a connection stop between the city of ChongQing and a suburb town, they are planning to build condos within next few years. If you look at Google satellite map, the surrounding area is already a construction site.
 
Quality of life in Canada is already better than almost anywhere else in the world. If you think China is so great, maybe you should move there.

ouch, another "if you dare criticize Canada, move back to where you are from" response. When did I say "China is so great"? I said China managed to improve transportation and quality of life dramatically in the past 20 years, which you seem to be upset with. To you (and those who “liked" your response), if one dares to admit there is one thing China does better than Canada, then this person should move to China, where everything is supposed to be horrible.

Plus, I am not living in Canada now. I am in France, where even a city of 200,000 people have multiple light rail lines.

As for the [if you don't like Canada, then get the hell out] style of patriotism in your comment, well maybe it's just me but I think that kind of rhetoric is really un-Canadian.

I didn't even say I don't like Canada. I simply criticized the low efficiency of transport building, which everyone knows for a fact. Apparently for this reason, I am unqualified to live in Canada any longer. How fragile are some people's ego?

In Canada, Vancouver for example, was able to build public transit a lot faster than Toronto does.
 
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Oh cut this feel-good liberal bullshit. I'm an immigrant myself and I would never say Serbia gets stuff done more than Canada does, because if that were to be the case then I wouldn't be here in the first place

that's because Serbia does NOT get things done more than Canada does, but China does. It is completely different. Serbia didn't build thousands of km of highspeed rail in 10 years, constructed multiple subways in all its major cities and didn't increase its per capita GDP by 11 folds between 1997-2017, did it? In fact Serbia had 3 times China's per capita GDP in 1997, today it is 65% of that. Comparing the progress in Serbia with China is laughable. Serbia as a developing country actually grew slower than a developed country like Canada in the past 20 years.

People move to Canada for a lot of reason, and getting more stuff done faster is probably not one of them (well for Serbian probably it is).
 
And next you can look forward to an unnecessarily tunneled and unnecessarily long one stop subway that connects to the Stoufville Line that provides the added benefit of just a one stop transfer to Line 5 and no transfers to Line 2.
 
[QUOTE="
In Canada, Vancouver for example, was able to build public transit a lot faster than Toronto does.[/QUOTE]

That's because in every other jurisdiction in the world, no one builds underground when they don't have to. Building a rapid transit line underground takes a lot more time than building above ground. Why are we building underground in suburbs (Vaughan and Scarborough) when we don't need to?
 
Man, all these complaints!
First, the TYSSE is not the REASON we don't build enough subways. At worst, it's a symptom because we build things in fits and starts and even projects that make sense are not slotted in their proper place in the priority queue.
It's all fine and good that China and wherever builds em faster - how long did it take NYC to build the 2nd Avenue line? We're just comparing apples to oranges. It takes us forever partly because of all our regulations (safety, environmental and whatnot) but mostly because we are operating with an 1867 political system and a funding system that's not much better.

There's no real regional plan (apologies to toothless Metrolinx), no prioritization and no constant flow of money. It's the difference between a family sitting down around the table every night for dinner and a bunch of starving prisoners being thrown a loaf of bread once a week.

We STOPPED building subways, effectively, for more than 20 years and that has nothing to do with the EA process or Serbia. It has to do with our entire governance system, from the compromises of Confederation in the 1860s, through the creation of regional municipalities in the 1970s. Cities are incapable of building this sort of infrastructure on their own which means they have to rely on a province, which has its own priorities in any given year/election cycle, and an even wealthier federal government that has even less general inclination to get involved on a regular basis, and no legal reason to do so beyond sheer generosity.

The subway will be great for York U and it will be great for Vaughan. Even in terms of York Region priorities, it arguably should have been behind the Yonge extension but that's simply not how we do things here for better or worse (definitely mostly for worse) so griping about how some autocratic regime on another continent is able to build a greater quantity isn't helping. Nor are the people complaining (not necessarily here, but elsewhere) about how the nice-looking stations are the suburbs trying to pretend they're cities or whatever.

It would be nice if we did everything else we need to do first but this line WILL serve a major city-building purpose in Vaughan - one that is already very visible - and making transit a literal landmark around which the community is built seems to me an entirely reasonable thing to do.

We've got bigger problems to fix than the fancy architecture in Vaughan; a decade later the same mistakes - and worse - are being made because the system hasn't been fixed and, frankly, isn't likely to be any time soon.
 
Another problem is allowing constituents to weigh in on transit planning and complicit politicians running on selfish nonsensical extensions.
 
Man, all these complaints!
First, the TYSSE is not the REASON we don't build enough subways. At worst, it's a symptom because we build things in fits and starts and even projects that make sense are not slotted in their proper place in the priority queue.
It's all fine and good that China and wherever builds em faster - how long did it take NYC to build the 2nd Avenue line? We're just comparing apples to oranges. It takes us forever partly because of all our regulations (safety, environmental and whatnot) but mostly because we are operating with an 1867 political system and a funding system that's not much better.

There's no real regional plan (apologies to toothless Metrolinx), no prioritization and no constant flow of money. It's the difference between a family sitting down around the table every night for dinner and a bunch of starving prisoners being thrown a loaf of bread once a week.

We STOPPED building subways, effectively, for more than 20 years and that has nothing to do with the EA process or Serbia. It has to do with our entire governance system, from the compromises of Confederation in the 1860s, through the creation of regional municipalities in the 1970s. Cities are incapable of building this sort of infrastructure on their own which means they have to rely on a province, which has its own priorities in any given year/election cycle, and an even wealthier federal government that has even less general inclination to get involved on a regular basis, and no legal reason to do so beyond sheer generosity.

The subway will be great for York U and it will be great for Vaughan. Even in terms of York Region priorities, it arguably should have been behind the Yonge extension but that's simply not how we do things here for better or worse (definitely mostly for worse) so griping about how some autocratic regime on another continent is able to build a greater quantity isn't helping. Nor are the people complaining (not necessarily here, but elsewhere) about how the nice-looking stations are the suburbs trying to pretend they're cities or whatever.

It would be nice if we did everything else we need to do first but this line WILL serve a major city-building purpose in Vaughan - one that is already very visible - and making transit a literal landmark around which the community is built seems to me an entirely reasonable thing to do.

We've got bigger problems to fix than the fancy architecture in Vaughan; a decade later the same mistakes - and worse - are being made because the system hasn't been fixed and, frankly, isn't likely to be any time soon.

When after fifteen years of no rapid transit expansion, we build a subway to Vaughan that could have extravogent stations with virtually zero ridership, some complaints are warranted. And nevermind that any remotely sane jurisdiction would've built this on the surface.
 
It's all fine and good that China and wherever builds em faster - how long did it take NYC to build the 2nd Avenue line? We're just comparing apples to oranges.

While Canada and China may not be directly comparable, we shouldn't think the Spadina extension is anything comparable to Manhattan. It is apples and watermelons.
 
Another problem is allowing constituents to weigh in on transit planning and complicit politicians running on selfish nonsensical extensions.

Yes, it should be completely left for experts to decide where to build what, and then that's it. Honestly what the hell do the constituents know about building subways? Democracy should not work this way.
 
While Canada and China may not be directly comparable, we shouldn't think the Spadina extension is anything comparable to Manhattan. It is apples and watermelons.

Probably delicious apples and McIntosh apples but that was still my point. You can't just look at other jurisdictions and ask why we're not doing it. They're functioning in totally different systems, not just in terms of geography (and geology) but regulatory and financial.

Yes, some complaints are warranted but they should be directed in the right place. It's not Vaughan's fault or the bruised egos of North York politicians. It's a problem that starts with the very top of the system.

Cut Metrolinx loose - give them their own funding resources and take cabinet approval out of the equation, but proper representation on the board - and most of these problems go away. Other jurisdictions have other problems, no question. But ours is one of if inadequate resources that facilitates politicization of the process.
 
Australia still doesn't really have a fully integrated contiguous transcontinental railway system like in Canada, they actually still have several breaks of gauge.

Funny I watched a show on TVO a couple nights ago that specifically talked about this. They displayed what was apparently their only cross-country train and it looked pretty rustic. But I guess who needs trains when you have road trains (really dislike the concept but it is what is and they're very proud of them).

But yeah I agree with other comments about Berlin and whatnot. Some of their stations - and stations across Germany and the world - make clear you can have basic bare bones designs that are still open and attractive. There's a perception common in this thread that a subway station can only be nice looking or well-used if it's unique, designed by a starchitect, with a surface portion the size of an aircraft carrier. Which is stupid. Berlin also uses short trains abt 100m long, 2/3 the length of ours. Not to mention two distinct rolling stock that are either narrow or very narrow. Like NYC it's more dynamic.

And DC is a prime example of using standard templates for station design but which come out stunning. I believe they have six set designs, some fancy some boring, but all work. Also use huge sections of at or above-grade, which is apparently a taboo subject here. But on the whole I think TYSSE will serve as a reminder for quite awhile. Didn't take long for Crosstown to become a sort of antithesis with its low frills approach, but no doubt in my mind people will be fine with it.
 
that's because Serbia does NOT get things done more than Canada does
If you read my post you would've saw I already acknowledged that, rendering the rest of your post totally useless because I already know that Serbia is a shit poor country where what little of a laughable rail network it has doesn't go faster than 15km/h in some parts. But if my home country was China that's clearly developing faster, I wouldn't be going to other countries to point and laugh
 
I posted some thoughts after attending Saturday's open houses. While I think Pioneer Village and Finch West Stations will do well – almost entirely because of TTC feeder buses – Vaughan Metropolitan Centre will only be a successful terminus if York Region Transit steps up and drastically improves service, though at least the urban plans for the area have good promise. The long transfer between YRT/Viva services does not help either.

I am also very disappointed that GO Transit/Metrolinx hasn't provided any public information. They were visibly absent from the open houses, despite lots of TTC staff, YRT, and even Brampton Transit representatives.
 
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