Toronto Spadina Subway Extension Emergency Exits | ?m | 1s | TTC | IBI Group

[Megaton327]

I posted some thoughts after attending Saturday's open houses. While I think Pioneer Village and Finch West Stations will do well – almost entirely because of TTC feeder buses – Vaughan Metropolitan Centre will only be a successful terminus if York Region Transit steps up and drastically improves service, though at least the urban plans for the have good promise. The long transfer between YRT/Viva services does not help either.

I am also very disappointed that GO Transit/Metrolinx hasn't provided any public information. They were visibly absent from the open houses, despite lots of TTC staff, YRT, and even Brampton Transit representatives.

Regarding the point in your blog post about Downsview Park, keep in mind that in December 2017 or January 2018 GO is almost certainly introducing weekday midday/evening two-way service on the Barrie line, which will likely operate hourly due to recent track construction, and the weekend service will likely be upgraded to hourly as well (not that 1h15min service is meaningfully different from 1h service compared to the previous rush hour only trains). I think a lot of Barrie Line commuters will find transferring there makes sense if their destination is along the northwestern portion of Line 1 or on the Bloor line, as it makes more sense than going all the way down to Union, fighting the crowds through the station, getting on a packed train, and backtracking north.

Time will tell--I'm very eager to see what the ridership will be, I think it has a lot of potential if people manage to figure out the utility of transferring there, and some commuters who currently drive because they work in the Downsview/Yorkdale/Eglinton W/St Clair W area might start taking GO. Personally, since I live in Aurora, I'm very excited for Downsview Park.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Regarding the point in your blog post about Downsview Park, keep in mind that in December 2017 or January 2018 GO is almost certainly introducing weekday midday/evening two-way service on the Barrie line, which will likely operate hourly due to recent track construction, and the weekend service will likely be upgraded to hourly as well (not that 1h15min service is meaningfully different from 1h service compared to the previous rush hour only trains). I think a lot of Barrie Line commuters will find transferring there makes sense if their destination is along the northwestern portion of Line 1 or on the Bloor line, as it makes more sense than going all the way down to Union, fighting the crowds through the station, getting on a packed train, and backtracking north.

I'm skeptical that a significant proportion of existing Barrie Line customers have destinations on Line 2 or the northwestern part of University Line. GO is (obviously) heavily oriented towards Union Station, thus GO customers will predominantly have destinations in the Union Station vicinity. It's going to take several years for trip patterns to change, and for the transfer volume at Downsview Park Station to pick up.

Secondly, one GO Train an hour isn't going to generate subway-level ridership. Because a GO Train carries roughly 2,000 people, we're going to see a few hundred people, at most, using this station during peak hour. It's not going to be generating subway-level ridership until we have four trains per hour running through here via GO RER.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Regarding Downsview Park Station, where will the stops for the 107, 108, 101, 106 and 84 be located? Based on the route diagram, none of those bus routes will actually be going into the station. I presume customers will have to walk the 100 metres into the station.

 

[ShonTron]

Regarding Downsview Park Station, where will the stops for the 107, 108, 101, 106 and 84 be located? Based on the route diagram, none of those bus routes will actually be going into the station. I presume customers will have to walk the 100 metres into the station.

There are no platforms for any of those buses at Downsview Park; it will not be a useful transfer point for any of those buses, unless, of course, you're willing to walk over to Sheppard Avenue itself, which might make sense for a few GO Transit transfers. They will continue to interface with the subway at Sheppard West; 106, 107, 108, and 84D will also serve Pioneer Village.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

There are no platforms for any of those buses at Downsview Park; it will not be a useful transfer point for any of those buses, unless, of course, you're willing to walk over to Sheppard Avenue itself, which might make sense for a few GO Transit transfers. They will continue to interface with the subway at Sheppard West; 106, 107, 108, and 84D will also serve Pioneer Village.

If the road congestion approaching Sheppard West Station is bad enough, people might be willing to transfer at Downsview Park. However, I wouldn't expect Downsview Park to be a very popular transfer spot in the winter.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

I am also very disappointed that GO Transit/Metrolinx hasn't provided any public information. They were visibly absent from the open houses, despite lots of TTC staff, YRT, and even Brampton Transit representatives.

I agree.

I've mentioned it elsewhere but it was awfully quietly that Metrolinx shunted the Transitway a - project with complete EAs that are already a few years old - past the post-2041 horizon. Effectively, it killed a project that was advancing after years of being talked about.

Some transit journalist should pick up on that soon since it fundamentally undercut one of the prime rationales behind the otherwise obviously overbuilt 407 station. They just cut it down at the knees. (I also didn't know until I saw here that they added parking at VMC, which further undermines something that should have driven ridership at that station).

In terms of the stations, I suspect you're pretty much right. I think Downsview Station and the 407 station will be mauseoleums, at least in the short term. I'm less concerned about VMC since development is rolling there but it will take time to get up to speed, no question.

 

[innsertnamehere]

The parking at VMC is being privately built - and is a temporary surface lot. It is just a paid lot that you will be able to use for the subway or anything else in the area. They already reduced its size on the second SPA submission to provide a new development block for what is presumably Transit City phase 4 along Portage Parkway.

The 600 spots at 407 I expect will always be busy - honestly I'm amazed they didn't build way more.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Another problem is allowing constituents to weigh in on transit planning and complicit politicians running on selfish nonsensical extensions.

Don't forget about the opposite view by politicians who would cancel projects. IE. Harris and Ford.

 

[Richard White]

Don't forget about the opposite view by politicians who would cancel projects. IE. Harris and Ford.

The problem is we need stricter rules in place for cancellation of contracts. The issue with things like the Eglinton Subway amongst others is that when a new government comes along they like to save money. They accomplish that by cutting big ticket items like subways.

That is done by a simple majority vote by the governing party.

Perhaps it is a procedural thing but what is needed is two thirds majority for cancelling projects. Make it hard to cancel or change things and they will be built.

 

[Richard White]

In terms of the stations, I suspect you're pretty much right. I think Downsview Station and the 407 station will be mauseoleums, at least in the short term.

The problem with Downsview Park Station is that is primarily event driven. There is no reason to go there unless you are getting some Radiohead or Catching SARSstock.

 

[Adjei]

I agree.

I've mentioned it elsewhere but it was awfully quietly that Metrolinx shunted the Transitway a - project with complete EAs that are already a few years old - past the post-2041 horizon. Effectively, it killed a project that was advancing after years of being talked about.

Some transit journalist should pick up on that soon since it fundamentally undercut one of the prime rationales behind the otherwise obviously overbuilt 407 station. They just cut it down at the knees. (I also didn't know until I saw here that they added parking at VMC, which further undermines something that should have driven ridership at that station).

In terms of the stations, I suspect you're pretty much right. I think Downsview Station and the 407 station will be mauseoleums, at least in the short term. I'm less concerned about VMC since development is rolling there but it will take time to get up to speed, no question.

Isn't the Transitway being planned by the MTO?

 

[Sandpit]

I agree.

I've mentioned it elsewhere but it was awfully quietly that Metrolinx shunted the Transitway a - project with complete EAs that are already a few years old - past the post-2041 horizon. Effectively, it killed a project that was advancing after years of being talked about.

Some transit journalist should pick up on that soon since it fundamentally undercut one of the prime rationales behind the otherwise obviously overbuilt 407 station. They just cut it down at the knees. (I also didn't know until I saw here that they added parking at VMC, which further undermines something that should have driven ridership at that station).

In terms of the stations, I suspect you're pretty much right. I think Downsview Station and the 407 station will be mauseoleums, at least in the short term. I'm less concerned about VMC since development is rolling there but it will take time to get up to speed, no question.

There's no point in building the 407 Transitway now. The only thing it would achieve at this point is to save on 407 tolls, but the costs (and increase in travel times since transitway speeds are lower than highway speeds) makes it not worth it.

 

[44 North]

Don't forget about the opposite view by politicians who would cancel projects. IE. Harris and Ford.

Harris and Ford? Have trouble reading those two names together without thinking someone else lol.

The problem with Downsview Park Station is that is primarily event driven. There is no reason to go there unless you are getting some Radiohead or Catching SARSstock.

I worked on Carl Hall a bit over ten years ago so would've used the station. And there are a lot of people that work in the area, with more living there as redevelopment progressively rolls out. So there's obviously merit in building a rapid transit station. Whether it's worth the very high cost if there were more affordable options presented, or a less costly station option, is another matter. And with the GO station I can't see it being a popular transfer point, particularly if more southerly Barrie GO stations are built (though I have doubts about much of the RER + new stations grand plan happening as proposed).

 

[Amare]

I'm a bit late to the party here with photos, but here are some Miscellaneous photos of the Open House that haven't been posted by other members yet. I'm omitting photos of the stations since we already have excellent photos of those ones:

Vaughan Metropolitan Station facts:

Pioneer Station Facts:

Pioneer Station platform:

Pioneer Station Bus Platform:

 

[Richard White]

Why do they have speakers that connect to 311?