Toronto Spadina Subway Extension Emergency Exits | ?m | 1s | TTC | IBI Group

mrgrieves said:
IMO, the issue is that the land uses in North York are similar to Vaughan and both are very car dependent. Its mostly single family detached, and so bus service is not very good to get to the stations. I imagine many of the people who park at the stations will probably just drive downtown since it will be quicker, and not a major price difference considering you gotta pay 4$ a day to park at the subway.
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Consider that with the subway extension, it makes a bus trip to the subway much more palatable for people whose closest routes are Finch or Steeles.

I have a friend who would regularly use the Wilson lot, but he didn't use the bus because he was on Glen Shields Ave, just on the wrong side of Steeles. His choice was to pay double fare, or get a faster trip by paying for parking instead. It's ultimately people like him that the closure affects the most. Sure, he could go to the new parking lots, but they are increasingly out of the way (he would be driving west to go south east). His conundrum won't be solved until fare-integration.
 
I had read somewhere that about 2/3 of the people parking at Wilson don't live in Toronto.

The plan with Downsview Park is to make it an "urban" community (no consideration for the one-off massive event). Meaning people will live walking distance to the new station. There's tons of potential for that site, but in the mean the area north of there is all car mechanics and churches.
 
Richard White said:
It all depends on where you are going in Toronto. If you are going to the ACC for a Raptors/Leafs game parking next to Union Station is 25 dollars or more during events. Factor in alcohol and ride checks and it starts to make more sense to drive to the subway in Vaughan.

As for Downsview Park there is likely a method to their madness. If you have an event at Downsview Park it would be overwhelmed rather quickly with event attendees etc. I would bet my reputation on the fact that given the events that go on at Downsview Park they likely wanted transit access not parking access.

When I went to the SARS Benefit Concert in 2003 we ended up parking at York University and walking along the Allen to Downsview Park after being shuttled close to the venue. When we left it was a mad dash to Keele Street because there was throngs of people everywhere. We could not have got our car from Downsview or Wilson if our lives depended on it as there were simply too many people.
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But they don't have that many events at Downsview Park; and literally none on the scale of SARSstock, except for when the Pope came.
I know they've had EDM events and Radiohead was there but, particularly as it starts developing, I don't know that its future as an event venue is significant. I think in general the less parking/more density thing is good, but it needs to be phased properly.

(Also, I'm not sure Bombardier/the actual airport is going away any time soon. So it's all a long-term plan.)

Probably someone at TTC knows roughly where the people who park come from. I think they probably do mostly come from the north, hence moving the parking up to Steeles and 407 ends up putting out relatively few people. (They can't develop the Finch parking, because of the hydro lines but it seems a fair guess that there will be a lot more room there once the line is extended and a lot built up the 407.)


Markster said:
I have a friend who would regularly use the Wilson lot, but he didn't use the bus because he was on Glen Shields Ave, just on the wrong side of Steeles. His choice was to pay double fare, or get a faster trip by paying for parking instead. It's ultimately people like him that the closure affects the most. Sure, he could go to the new parking lots, but they are increasingly out of the way (he would be driving west to go south east). His conundrum won't be solved until fare-integration.
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Stories about how our fare system actively discourages transit use are the best!
It just goes to show we need holistic solutions and merely building infrastructure will only go so far. I also live close enough to Steeles that it's a constant calculation about driving downtown vs. driving to Finch vs. bus to Finch. Bringing the subways (and RER) closer to people are actually coming from is a good start, but it won't be enough.
 
TJ O'Pootertoot said:
But they don't have that many events at Downsview Park; and literally none on the scale of SARSstock, except for when the Pope came.
I know they've had EDM events and Radiohead was there but, particularly as it starts developing, I don't know that its future as an event venue is significant. I think in general the less parking/more density thing is good, but it needs to be phased properly.

(Also, I'm not sure Bombardier/the actual airport is going away any time soon. So it's all a long-term plan.)
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Bombardier is an unknown at this point. I have family who work there and with all the layoffs and production cuts it is only a matter of time before they leave Downsview. I do get what you are saying regarding the large venue. Nobody goes to large format general admission concerts anymore so I can see why they would want to develop the area.
 
TJ O'Pootertoot said:
Stories about how our fare system actively discourages transit use are the best!
It just goes to show we need holistic solutions and merely building infrastructure will only go so far. I also live close enough to Steeles that it's a constant calculation about driving downtown vs. driving to Finch vs. bus to Finch. Bringing the subways (and RER) closer to people are actually coming from is a good start, but it won't be enough.
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He was not happy when metropass users had to start paying for parking! But pay he did, because it was still better than the double-fare bus ride.
 
Richard White said:
It all depends on where you are going in Toronto. If you are going to the ACC for a Raptors/Leafs game parking next to Union Station is 25 dollars or more during events. Factor in alcohol and ride checks and it starts to make more sense to drive to the subway in Vaughan.
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Actually, factoring in alcohol and ride checks and it does not make sense to drive anywhere!
 
TOareaFan said:
Actually, factoring in alcohol and ride checks and it does not make sense to drive anywhere!
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Depending on how much you had to drink and when it may actually be safer to take the subway given the hour and a half commute from Union to Vaughan. Unless you are totally blottoed in the sense that you downed a few dozen beers at the game and have a BAC of 1.48% you MIGHT be able to drive by the time you get to Vaughan. Some people can handle alcohol better than others. I once knew a guy who would down a dozen beers and not be entirely fazed due to his size.

That hour and a half factors in walking to the station, to your car, etc etc.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_alcohol_content#Highest_recorded_blood_alcohol_level.2Fcontent
 
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Richard White said:
Depending on how much you had to drink and when it may actually be safer to take the subway given the hour and a half commute from Union to Vaughan. Unless you are totally blottoed in the sense that you downed a few dozen beers at the game and have a BAC of 1.48% you MIGHT be able to drive by the time you get to Vaughan. Some people can handle alcohol better than others. I once knew a guy who would down a dozen beers and not be entirely fazed due to his size.

That hour and a half factors in walking to the station, to your car, etc etc.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_alcohol_content#Highest_recorded_blood_alcohol_level.2Fcontent
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People, generally, are very poor judges of their own blood alcohol levels......and the judgement gets progressively worse as consumption increases....chances are very high that if you would "blow over" at Union after a night at the ACC....you will still "blow over" in Vaughan a wee bit later.
 
TOareaFan said:
People, generally, are very poor judges of their own blood alcohol levels......and the judgement gets progressively worse as consumption increases....chances are very high that if you would "blow over" at Union after a night at the ACC....you will still "blow over" in Vaughan a wee bit later.
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The rule of thumb is that you lose .01 BAC per hour after you've stopped drinking. It would take about an hour to get from the ACC to VMC. So, only if somebody is exactly at the limit leaving the ACC would they be under at VMC--and .01/h is just a guideline, it can vary significantly person to person based on a huge number of factors. Nonetheless, that trip does provide some time for BAC to drop, to some extent.
 
Richard White said:
Depending on how much you had to drink and when it may actually be safer to take the subway given the hour and a half commute from Union to Vaughan. Unless you are totally blottoed in the sense that you downed a few dozen beers at the game and have a BAC of 1.48% you MIGHT be able to drive by the time you get to Vaughan. Some people can handle alcohol better than others. I once knew a guy who would down a dozen beers and not be entirely fazed due to his size.

That hour and a half factors in walking to the station, to your car, etc etc.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_alcohol_content#Highest_recorded_blood_alcohol_level.2Fcontent
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*Warning Warning. Smart Serve Alert*

People don't handle alcohol better than others, they just mask it's effects better. Body size and composition do play a factor but not to the effect that people think. A BAC of .08 is still impaired regardless of if you are slurring your words or giving a dissertation on the long term socioeconomic effects of European Colonialism on the New World
 
TJ O'Pootertoot said:
But they don't have that many events at Downsview Park; and literally none on the scale of SARSstock, except for when the Pope came.
I know they've had EDM events and Radiohead was there but, particularly as it starts developing, I don't know that its future as an event venue is significant. I think in general the less parking/more density thing is good, but it needs to be phased properly.
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I had tickets to that Radiohead show, but they didn't play because the stage collapsed a few hours before the show, killing a worker. Radiohead hasn't been back to Toronto since.
 
TJ O'Pootertoot said:
Yes, I understand how and why the subway gets upgraded and obviously there wasn't commuter chaos. It's just bad coordination. (not unlike in October when the Yonge line was down during that baseball playoffs and hockey tournament.)

I get that it has to happen but it's poor optics, at best.
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At the time they planed the closure they din't know the jays were going to be in the playoffs and I don't know if they knew about the world cup of hockey tournament. As Brad Ross said on twitter there never is a good time to do a closure, but they do what they have to to get the work done.
 
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TOareaFan said:
People, generally, are very poor judges of their own blood alcohol levels......and the judgement gets progressively worse as consumption increases....chances are very high that if you would "blow over" at Union after a night at the ACC....you will still "blow over" in Vaughan a wee bit later.
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Pro tip: don't drink and drive. leave the keys at home and take public transit or take an uber. I've been doing this for years and I've yet to kill anyone.
 
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