Toronto Queens Quay & Water's Edge Revitalization | ?m | ?s | Waterfront Toronto

AlvinofDiaspar said:
And better yet, it isn't super-expensive (as transit project goes), and can hit the shovel relatively soon.
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And its construction will also inconvenience very few existing residents and businesses, but would hugely jump start development in the area. Politically it seems like a no-brainer.
 
Tulse said:
And its construction will also inconvenience very few existing residents and businesses, but would hugely jump start development in the area. Politically it seems like a no-brainer.
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Yes, the City and WT used to have the slogan "Transit First" and if they just got on with the QQE line it might just be true! I think the only problem will be that it would mean that while they make the (apparently complicated) connection to the Bay tunnel they would have to shut the whole QQ line down, again. THAT would certainly piss off the folks on QQ West who have been living with construction for 3 years now.
 
DSC said:
Yes, the City and WT used to have the slogan "Transit First" and if they just got on with the QQE line it might just be true! I think the only problem will be that it would mean that while they make the (apparently complicated) connection to the Bay tunnel they would have to shut the whole QQ line down, again. THAT would certainly piss off the folks on QQ West who have been living with construction for 3 years now.
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Would a shut-down last more than a couple of weeks? I assume it's complicated because they cannot use a panel and will need to build the track in place with little manoeuvring room for equipment.

The bulk of the work should be possible to do with little interruption, unless there is a cave-in or something.
 
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DSC said:
Yes, the City and WT used to have the slogan "Transit First" and if they just got on with the QQE line it might just be true! I think the only problem will be that it would mean that while they make the (apparently complicated) connection to the Bay tunnel they would have to shut the whole QQ line down, again. THAT would certainly piss off the folks on QQ West who have been living with construction for 3 years now.
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What's gonna happen to the underground streetcar station at Bay & Harbour when the tunnel gets rebuilt?
 
rbt said:
Would a shut-down last more than a couple of weeks? I assume it's complicated because they cannot use a panel and will need to build the track in place with little manoeuvring room for equipment.

The bulk of the work should be possible to do with little interruption, unless there is a cave-in or something.
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I do not completely remember the details but making the Y connection at QQ involves moving some major beams and it was very expensive - that's why the cost is so comparatively high - the surface track is NOT the major expenditure. I assume the underground Bay/Harbour station will remain as it serves the Jack Layton Ferry Docks and would be where a person would change from a QQW to QQE streetcar as I understood that both lines will go into Union and not simply run along QQ.

It may b e expensive to do all this but it is a VERY good thing to do ("transit first" and all that) so I hope the Liberals actually put $$ into it SOON. (Glenn Murray, who was the Transport Minister is certainly very much in favour but will he stay in that portfolio and do they actually have any $$ for all their promises?)

More info at http://stevemunro.ca/?p=7314 where Steve states: Coming into 2012, the project estimate had grown to $335m broken down as:
•$112m for changes to the Union Station loop
•$156 for the tunnel on Queens Quay from Bay east to Freeland
•$66m for the surface portion from Freeland to Parliament

This number is now felt to be low because, somehow, the TTC has acquired a new “mandate” to relocate all utilities under its rights-of-way and this will push up the cost of the surface segment. (As an aside, I cannot help wondering how much of this is gold-bricking by utilities who seek to renew/replace their existing plant at the transit project’s expense.)
 
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DSC said:
I do not completely remember the details but making the Y connection at QQ involves moving some major beams and it was very expensive - that's why the cost is so comparatively high - the surface track is NOT the major expenditure. I assume the underground Bay/Harbour station will remain as it serves the Jack Layton Ferry Docks and would be where a person would change from a QQW to QQE streetcar as I understood that both lines will go into Union and not simply run along QQ.
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Yeah, I know the cost was for moving around structural supports but I wasn't aware it required a long-term shutdown for that entire package of work.

I would have expected the high cost was a reflection of odd work hours (overnight) and temporary supports being used so that something close to normal service could be provided while work is underway.
 
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DSC said:
This number is now felt to be low because, somehow, the TTC has acquired a new “mandate” to relocate all utilities under its rights-of-way and this will push up the cost of the surface segment. (As an aside, I cannot help wondering how much of this is gold-bricking by utilities who seek to renew/replace their existing plant at the transit project’s expense.)
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OK just so i understand this new TTC direction which has been going on for some time now. Are the placing the utilities under their ROW and not under the car lanes? or removing them from under the ROW and placing them into car lanes so they don't have to cut the ROW up for access?

If its the former, my mind is blown by the strangeness of it.
 
rbt said:
Yeah, I know the cost was for moving around structural supports but I wasn't aware it required a shutdown for that entire package of work.

I would have expected the high cost was a reflection of odd work hours (overnight) and temporary supports being used so that something close to normal service could be provided while work is underway.
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The whole roof of the portal will have to be remove as well shoring place along the south edge of the ramp wall and on Bay St.

The existing retaining walls for the new junction would be remove to allow building of a new retaining wall to support the new Y junction that will include a straight through track on QQ.

The existing roadbed would have to be built to support the straight through track and the new Y switches.

QQ east would be dug up to built the underground section from Bay to Yonge before it starts toward the surface.

There is a trunk line at Yonge that this tunnel has to get under.

With the new junction at QQ, TTC can run E&W branches to Union as well run bypass service.

It was hope that when construction started on the current work that the portal would be done at the same time to prevent interfering when the QQE extension finally got built, but no money to do it. There will be a shut down of the line when it comes to building the new portal with no traffic turning left at Bay St.

The streetcars will be out of action as long as it take to the new junction. If work is done 7/24, should be about 1-2 months and this does not include the extension east of the junction since it will not have an impact of TTC service.
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
And better yet, it isn't super-expensive (as transit project goes), and can hit the shovel relatively soon.

AoD
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It's a shame some parts of the city (namely EB, WDL, etc) get transit built prior to major development or at least concurrently, meanwhile HBS has been patiently waiting for improved anything and no dice. Keep the condos coming though!
 
Filip said:
It's a shame some parts of the city (namely EB, WDL, etc) get transit built prior to major development or at least concurrently, meanwhile HBS has been patiently waiting for improved anything and no dice. Keep the condos coming though!
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Don't look at me, I am all for going forward with WWLRT, but you know a certain elected official thought otherwise.

AoD
 
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DSC said:
I do not completely remember the details but making the Y connection at QQ involves moving some major beams and it was very expensive - that's why the cost is so comparatively high - the surface track is NOT the major expenditure. I assume the underground Bay/Harbour station will remain as it serves the Jack Layton Ferry Docks and would be where a person would change from a QQW to QQE streetcar as I understood that both lines will go into Union and not simply run along QQ.
Click to expand...

There is very little structural work that would need to be done structurally at the wye - it was built to allow for expansion when necessary.

The reason why the tunnel cost is seemingly so high is because the tunnel will have to pass below a large storm/sewer main that runs underneath Yonge Street, and thus the streetcars won't be coming to surface until between Freeland and Cooper.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
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