Toronto Queens Quay & Water's Edge Revitalization | ?m | ?s | Waterfront Toronto

Walker said:
I think this TTC page has been updated recently.

I've seen this part before:

"Starting Monday, April 16, through to Monday, May 7, 2012, TTC track staff will be will be carrying out rail repairs to the streetcar right-of-way at various locations on the Queens Quay West between the Spadina loop and the tunnel ramp east of York Street. To accommodate this work, temporary service changes will be made to the 509 HARBOURFRONT and 510 SPADINA streetcar routes east of Spadina Avenue. This work is necessary to enable the safe operation of streetcars on the right-of-way until the Revitalization Project of Queens Quay West begins later this year."

I think this part was added:

"Additional Rail Preparation Work
For approximately 5 days at the end of April, between the hours of 7 a.m. and 7 p.m., the TTC will also conduct advance work in preparation of rail replacement inside the Harbourfront streetcar tunnel, scheduled for later this year. A welding truck will be parked at the north/east corner of Bay Street and Queens Quay and used to weld standard lengths of rail, stored in the tunnel, into longer strings. The welding cables from the truck will be fed down the staircase entrance to the Queens Quay Station. The welding truck will generate noise when it is in full operation."
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I don't understand. If they are re-aligning the streetcars (from the revitalization plans), why are they fixing the tracks now? Just so they can tear it up again later? I don't see the problem with running buses until they revitalize QQ.
 
AKS said:
I don't understand. If they are re-aligning the streetcars (from the revitalization plans), why are they fixing the tracks now? Just so they can tear it up again later? I don't see the problem with running buses until they revitalize QQ.
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Neither do I. I take them every day and the buses there aren't much less convenient. I imagine they're a greater impediment to traffic, but they'll be running them for 1-2 years while the street gets reconfigured. Seems like a waste of money to fix the tracks.
 
Maybe it's because the 509 route west of Bathurst isn't very bus-friendly given the one-way section on the Fleet St. loop? 510 up Spadina also would be brutal in a bus in rush hour. (That's assuming that both routes went completely bus)

I also don't know if buses can handle capacity during peak times. The last there were buses on the 509 west of Bathurst during rail repairs, it was brutal trying to get anywhere. You had to wait for 5 or 6 buses to go by before you could get on when there was a show at the Direct Energy Centre.

Right now, it's only that section on QQ that's bus. You transfer from the streetcar for both 510 and 509 to the bus. ttk, are you doing the streetcar to the bus shuttle or just the bus because I know people who have to do the shuttle are finding it awkward. Quite a few people at the west end of the 509 line are just taking the 511 and avoiding the 509 altogether.

I agree that it does seem a waste to fix the tracks when they are just going to move them (hopefully!) in the near future.
 
I live near QQ and Rees, so I don't need to transfer from streetcar to bus. Also, my perspective isn't particularly typical for the route since I generally head to work around 6:30 in the morning and walk home from Union in the evening when the streetcars/buses are packed. My general point was though, if this is going to be the setup for a couple years, what's a couple extra months added on?
 
ttk77 said:
I live near QQ and Rees, so I don't need to transfer from streetcar to bus. Also, my perspective isn't particularly typical for the route since I generally head to work around 6:30 in the morning and walk home from Union in the evening when the streetcars/buses are packed. My general point was though, if this is going to be the setup for a couple years, what's a couple extra months added on?
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Until Waterfront Toronto actually awards a tender on the QQ project there is no guarantee it will go through.

If contractor bids come in 20% over the expected value they may choose to redesign components to make it cheaper; giving us a Spring 2013 start.

You will recall that Waterfront Toronto delayed Union several years and put out RFPs more than once to fit their budget.


You will also recall the Bathurst Street bridge project. TTC performed emergency track fixes south of the bridge immediately before the bridge was to be replaced (expected start was 3 to 4 months later).

Engineering found faults with the bridge project which they still haven't resolved to the point of tendering the bridge job nearly 4 years later.



The minimal amount of money they're putting into the tracks seems like pretty cheap insurance. I might think differently if Waterfront Toronto had extra cash (to handle budget overruns) and near perfect record for starting projects on schedule; but they're not good in either of those 2 areas.


Heck, East Bayfront was supposed to have LRT by now.
 
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rbt said:
Dead until someone gives them a bunch of funding.
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Arrggh. The Cherry Street line is supposed to be connected to QQ East, right? So much for a coherent network...

That's one thing that bugs me about transit in the GTA: we seem to miss so many opportunities for making network connections.
 
Komiksulo said:
Arrggh. The Cherry Street line is supposed to be connected to QQ East, right? So much for a coherent network...
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The bus service on Cherry Street will be just as fine as the bus service to East Bayfront. The row might get set aside but as far as I know Waterfront Toronto does not have funds for tracks.
 
rbt said:
Until Waterfront Toronto actually awards a tender on the QQ project there is no guarantee it will go through.

If contractor bids come in 20% over the expected value they may choose to redesign components to make it cheaper; giving us a Spring 2013 start.

The minimal amount of money they're putting into the tracks seems like pretty cheap insurance. I might think differently if Waterfront Toronto had extra cash (to handle budget overruns) and near perfect record for starting projects on schedule; but they're not good in either of those 2 areas.
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Spring 2013 is only a year from now. I don't see problems running the buses for a year and save on fixing the tracks. You mentioned minimal amount of money to put in tracks. How much is minimal with all the materials and labour costs. That money could go towards realigning the tracks. The city seems to have found extra money from all the taxes. Maybe that will help kick start the project.
 
AKS said:
Spring 2013 is only a year from now. I don't see problems running the buses for a year and save on fixing the tracks. You mentioned minimal amount of money to put in tracks. How much is minimal with all the materials and labour costs. That money could go towards realigning the tracks. The city seems to have found extra money from all the taxes. Maybe that will help kick start the project.
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Can buses even handle the load down at Union station once we hit the height of the summer season? Seems quite reasonable to do some repairs now, to let them operate for another year or so.

Besides, isn't most of the work being done IN the tunnel? That's not part of the upcoming Queens Quay rebuild. Given they are leaving a slow order in place on Queens Quay, the work there seems to be quite light.
 
It appears that there's track work going on in the tunnels, but there is also a significant amount of concrete replacement going on between Spadina and QQ terminal as well.

You're probably right about the capacity problems with buses during the height of the summer season. The street cars don't even seem to have the capacity to handle everyone.
 
rbt said:
The bus service on Cherry Street will be just as fine as the bus service to East Bayfront. The row might get set aside but as far as I know Waterfront Toronto does not have funds for tracks.
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According to the April 2012 WT Newsletter they WILL be lating the streetcar tracks on Cherry Street (from King to the railtracks) as part of the Cherry Street rebuilding project - which is going on right now. I have, however, heard that they will not actually use them until after the Pan-Am Games. See Newsletter where it says:
Cherry Street and old Eastern Avenue have been closed and work to remove the old road bed has begun. Work on underground services and utilities will begin shortly, starting with the deepest services such as sanitary sewers on the north end and storm sewers on the south. This work will be followed by more shallow services and will be completed with the installation of a new road bed, street car tracks and trees.
 
rbt said:
The bus service on Cherry Street will be just as fine as the bus service to East Bayfront. The row might get set aside but as far as I know Waterfront Toronto does not have funds for tracks.
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According to the April 2012 WT Newsletter they WILL be laying the streetcar tracks on Cherry Street (from King to the railtracks) as part of the Cherry Street rebuilding project - which is going on right now. I have, however, heard that they will not actually use them until after the Pan-Am Games. See Newsletter where it says:
Cherry Street and old Eastern Avenue have been closed and work to remove the old road bed has begun. Work on underground services and utilities will begin shortly, starting with the deepest services such as sanitary sewers on the north end and storm sewers on the south. This work will be followed by more shallow services and will be completed with the installation of a new road bed, street car tracks and trees.
 
DSC said:
According to the April 2012 WT Newsletter they WILL be laying the streetcar tracks on Cherry Street (from King to the railtracks) as part of the Cherry Street rebuilding project - which is going on right now. I have, however, heard that they will not actually use them until after the Pan-Am Games. See Newsletter where it says
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Okay, so in 2015 they will have opened a 600m section of a 2km line (15%) and 0m of the other promised line.

Somehow I think this reinforces my point that Waterfront Toronto is short on cash.
 
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