Toronto Queens Quay & Water's Edge Revitalization | ?m | ?s | Waterfront Toronto

[ttk77]

Okay, so in 2015 they will have opened a 600m section of a 2km line and still nothing on East Bayfront.

Somehow I think this reinforces my point that Waterfront Toronto is short on cash.

Is it Waterfront Toronto footing the cash for this or the TTC?

I think it's pretty clear from the Portlands consultation though that we need to start letting WT borrow on future revenue in order to get things moving.

 

[rbt]

Is it Waterfront Toronto footing the cash for this or the TTC?

WT is to be paying for these items out of the funding the province, city, and feds provided them.

It's possible, but unlikely giving their own SOGR backlog, the TTC stepped up to fund this section of Cherry.


I am absolutely thrilled that they've funded Union Station and are attempting to do part of Queens Quay West but compared to their grand plan strategy Waterfront Toronto is falling short. Particularly so since the Front Street Extension cancellation freed up a bunch of cash for other projects. They've done great work but way over-promised.

 

[k10ery]

Is it Waterfront Toronto footing the cash for this or the TTC?

I think it's pretty clear from the Portlands consultation though that we need to start letting WT borrow on future revenue in order to get things moving.

Maybe. But first we'd have to give WT some future revenue streams that they could borrow against.

This is the odd case where TIF actually makes sense, it seems to me.

 

[ttk77]

hmmm....correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding was that they were given ownership of certain lands from the city/province and the revenue streams would come from fixing up these lands, adding infrastructure and selling off portions to developers.

 

[k10ery]

As I understand it, WT owns land valued at $100 million. They want to spend an additional $500 million on their current projects, and this does not even include "nice to have" spending on the LRT projects or the Port Lands. And their original grants from governments are almost completely tapped out.

So they do need additional revenue sources, far in excess of their land portfolio.

 

[nfitz]

As I understand it, WT owns land valued at $100 million. They want to spend an additional $500 million on their current projects, and this does not even include "nice to have" spending on the LRT projects or the Port Lands. And their original grants from governments are almost completely tapped out.

Are there net holdings even $100 million? There's certainly some land that has some value, but some is so contaminated, I wouldn't be surprised, that if you factored in the clean-up costs that are required, that the total value may be negative.

TIF might well be the answer here; especially as the city seems to want to accelerate the timeframe.

 

[k10ery]

They don't write down the land for the clean up cost. On the other hand, the current value presumably is less than what it will be worth after it's serviced. So, who knows.

 

[AKS]

It appears that there's track work going on in the tunnels, but there is also a significant amount of concrete replacement going on between Spadina and QQ terminal as well.

You're probably right about the capacity problems with buses during the height of the summer season. The street cars don't even seem to have the capacity to handle everyone.

Is the street car capacity all the much greater than a bus? I think they're about the same? Maybe slightly more. So it might be better to run more buses since the streetcar can't even handle the capacity. Also, they should run extended buses if it's busy. I know along Finch, it's a busy line so extended buses are ran there. They could do the same on QQ.

 

[Paleo]

Is the street car capacity all the much greater than a bus? I think they're about the same? Maybe slightly more. So it might be better to run more buses since the streetcar can't even handle the capacity. Also, they should run extended buses if it's busy. I know along Finch, it's a busy line so extended buses are ran there. They could do the same on QQ.

Yes, if you factor in the level of pedestrian and auto traffic around Union.

 

[car4041]

Is the street car capacity all the much greater than a bus? I think they're about the same? Maybe slightly more. So it might be better to run more buses since the streetcar can't even handle the capacity. Also, they should run extended buses if it's busy. I know along Finch, it's a busy line so extended buses are ran there. They could do the same on QQ.

The TTC's service design capacity is 51 passengers for buses, 74 passengers for streetcars, and 108 passengers for articulated streetcars.

If by "extended buses" you mean articulated buses, then no, the TTC doesn't currently run any anywhere, and in any case, they would only approach the capacity of a regular streetcar (and will be blown away by the capacity of the new longer streetcars).

And as Paleo said, the streets around Union hardly form the ideal terminus for a frequent bus service. Compare the time it takes to get from QQ to Union on the bus versus the streetcar.

 

[nfitz]

And as Paleo said, the streets around Union hardly form the ideal terminus for a frequent bus service. Compare the time it takes to get from QQ to Union on the bus versus the streetcar.

Compare the time it takes to walk. Not sure why so many people get on the northbound streetcar at Queens Quay station, they are quicker to just walk up to the teamway, and walk through the GO station. Bus would be more effective if they looped at the south entrance to Union Station on Bremner, and beef up the Bay bus a bit, for those who can't walk the 500 metres from Queens Quay to Front.

 

[car4041]

Compare the time it takes to walk. Not sure why so many people get on the northbound streetcar at Queens Quay station, they are quicker to just walk up to the teamway, and walk through the GO station.

The streetcar goes from QQ to Union in like 1 minute and gives you a very comfortable transfer to the subway. On foot it can take almost that long just to wait to cross Lake Shore (and it's hardly a pleasant walk). I don't think it's surprising that many people choose the streetcar.

 

[nfitz]

The streetcar goes from QQ to Union in like 1 minute and gives you a very comfortable transfer to the subway. On foot it can take almost that long just to wait to cross Lake Shore (and it's hardly a pleasant walk). I don't think it's surprising that many people choose the streetcar.

1 minute? Not when I use it. Seems to sit in Queens Quay for a minute. Travel time is 2 minutes. And often seem to park at the edge of the platform at Union, waiting for the streetcars already in the platform to clear. And then there's the time to walk into the station, and waiting time for a streetcar. If one comes quickly, you might save 2 or 3 minutes maybe. But is a little exercise a bad thing?

 

[AKS]

The TTC's service design capacity is 51 passengers for buses, 74 passengers for streetcars, and 108 passengers for articulated streetcars.

If by "extended buses" you mean articulated buses, then no, the TTC doesn't currently run any anywhere, and in any case, they would only approach the capacity of a regular streetcar (and will be blown away by the capacity of the new longer streetcars).

And as Paleo said, the streets around Union hardly form the ideal terminus for a frequent bus service. Compare the time it takes to get from QQ to Union on the bus versus the streetcar.

Finch does run extended buses. They're not 2 full buses connected, but 1.5 size. There's an extension at the end of the bus about half the size of regular one and people stand in the middle as well because it's connected. I'm very sure they exist because I've taken it many times.

As for the new longer streetcars (LRT really). I don't think they're arriving any time soon? They would probably realign QQ first before they put they run the LRT. I really hope they remove those wires hanging up there. It's ugly.

 

[EnviroTO]

Finch does run extended buses. They're not 2 full buses connected, but 1.5 size. There's an extension at the end of the bus about half the size of regular one and people stand in the middle as well because it's connected. I'm very sure they exist because I've taken it many times.

You can't ride the bus very often because the TTC articulated buses left the fleet at the start of 2003.