Toronto Queens Quay & Water's Edge Revitalization | ?m | ?s | Waterfront Toronto

guys... QQ people are against it because the plan ignores the residents. They're turning QQ into a two lane road with NO parking, no pull in areas nothing - so a stopped car is going to cause massive headaches, same thing goes with the tourist buses, one of those stops, and again, zero traffic movement in one direction. The original plan had parking etc, so why they cut it is beyond me, but it seems foolish. Also, people are not happy about having all these four lane roads dumping onto a 2 lane road. Another area of concern is that huge parking lot at the corner of Rees / QQ - they're constantly flip-floping about where the exit point is going to be (whether they will keep the existing point, or have exit where the beer store is), and eithier way, this will still empty out onto a two lane road. People here are a for re-vamped QQ ... so long as they do it right the first time around.
 
nfitz said:
Wasn't the original plan a 1-way road though?
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At one point, one way going west was looked at.

Down side to this plan was the various closure that take place on the Lake Shore that would force the local residents and visitors to stay put for hours after they plan to leave until the Lake Shore events were over.

The one way plan would have been great if there was no Lake Shore Closure as it would stop through traffic 100%.

Even going to the current plan, it will cut down on the through traffic that makes up 60% of the traffic there today.

Sorry, but street parking is past history if you want to make the waterfront a great area. Most of those parking spots will allow people on QQ to have a spot to park their 2nd or 3rd car since they don't have room in their current places to do so.
 
No worries, the NYMBYs have won in this case. Their incessant delays about parking has delayed this project for too long and now it's on the chopping block. Watch things unravel over the spring/summer as the money for the 800m funded portion gets 'deferred' in light of the $700M budget hole for 2012.
 
lead82 said:
No worries, the NYMBYs have won in this case. Their incessant delays about parking has delayed this project for too long and now it's on the chopping block. Watch things unravel over the spring/summer as the money for the 800m funded portion gets 'deferred' in light of the $700M budget hole for 2012.
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There is a written agreement between the feds, province, and feds to make equal contributions. The feds have put in nearly all of theirs (various parks, etc.) and the province has kicked in some with the city deferring most of it's contributions until the end.

We may find ourselves paying either the last 1/3rd for outstanding projects or 1/3rd of everything that has been built (nearly the same dollar value). Feds are't known for letting municipalities off the hook for their portion. Their agreements are generally pretty tight on that.
 
Having lived on 10 years I can honestly say that there is no negative impact to residents. Due to stopped vehicles, service trucks, and parked buses QQ is already a two lane road as far as capacity. Combined with the Canada Square parking garage and the numerous new off street bus parking locations there should be a net improvement for parking (which doesn't serve residents). Queens Quay was never meant to be a through fare, it is meant to be a way to access the waterfront.
 
This is a perfect example of why things never get done in this city. Earlier in this thread, there was some discussion about why revamping QQ should take 6 years or more. Well, this is the reason. Everyone wants their say and expects to have their demands met. We expect our government and civil service to please everyone and then blame them for "not listening" when they don't succeed. I do realise that there are many examples of bonehead plans or decisions made that do not respect communities, and I'm not defending those, nor am I saying that everyone should just be quiet. But speaking in more broad terms, every single proposal, project, plan that is brought forward in this city is objected to vehemently by people that loudly proclaim themselves to be victims of a conspiracy by the "idiots" in the public service who came up with the plans. "The community will be ruined", "the street will become a ghost town" (that's one of my favourites from the Spadina merchants when the streetcar line was proposed) are frequent utterings heard at every public meeting. I am sometimes amazed that plans even continue to be proposed, when I see the abuse that such plans often provoke to those whom we pay to take it.

I'm not advocating that people shouldn't have their say, but what do we actually expect our public service to do when they are faced with diametrically opposed opinions on the same project? We expect them to do the impossible (please everyone) and when they don't, we pronounce them incompetent. When projects seem to take forever because so much time is spent re-investigating every little concern that is brought up, we pronounce the public servants inefficient. When things escalate in costs because of all the checks and balances that are built into the process, we designate the public servants as corrupt.

On the waterfront, we have people saying alternately "full steam ahead," "full steam ahead, but only if you do it my way," and "don't spend my money on it." In fact, that just about covers all of the projects proposed for this city. What's worse, is that we cannot seem, as a city, to have an intelligent debate about the issues without the discussions dumbing down to a "downtown vs suburb", "left vs right," "us vs them" shouting match. The gentle art of compromise seems to be lost. I love this city, but it's current success has been achieved on the basis of what was built 50 years ago and before. The generations since, are failing the city. If we don't start getting projects, like QQ, built and public works accomplished, we will fall behind and never catch up. We need a leader who can inspire the citizens of this city to work together instead of at cross-purposes. I have no idea if such a person even exists, but I don't see them anywhere near municipal politics right now. The waterfront isn't a priority for the current mayor and I fear that this is just another plan that will join many others on the dusty shelf that we use so often in Toronto.
 
FTA
“You don’t subsidize the most valuable property in Canada to the tune of $10-million an acre,” he said. “You let the private sector buy it and let them develop it. We can control it. We can say we want a round building here and a square one here. We can control it but we don't spend 1.5 billion dollars in tax dollars when everyone’s feeling pressure. It’s just common sense.”
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Why does it seem like every decision made by the Brothers Ford is based purely on "common sense"??? Is there no place for complexity or analysis anymore? I wish my life was filled with such simple black-and-white decisions.
 
The TTC must be feeling the pinch too - they've gone and repaired the vast majority of the cracked concrete on the QQ row... which seems to suggest we are waiting for a longer wait.
 
What flawed common sense. Who would have paid for the flood protection, the sewers, and the soil re-mediation? Do they expect a huge sale of all the land at once to a single developer so that developer can justify the infrastructure investment that they would cover? Don't the Fords realize that there is privately owned properties on Queens Quay currently that sit there doing little at all and that have done little for decades? It simply isn't valuable land until the flood protection, the servicing, and the public amenities to support it. You need to build civic infrastructure before you can then reap the tax and development fee rewards. In the end the do sell the land... at a higher price than they could have with no investment in infrastructure.
 
Indeed. The Fords' trouble with basic economics is rather amusing. The only reason the land is valuable is because of the investment--both past and anticipated--in public amenities and infrastructure. Take that away and the City gets less for the land, and in the end less property tax for condos in an area with crappier features. Take your pick.
 
Kitsune said:
The TTC must be feeling the pinch too - they've gone and repaired the vast majority of the cracked concrete on the QQ row... which seems to suggest we are waiting for a longer wait.
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They did the same thing on Fleet Street. They spent a summer with a few closures to do smaller fixes, and then began pulling it up as soon as the Ex was done. I don't really think it is an indication of a much longer wait...TTC Operations probably decided that the slowdown needed to be dealt with now, rather than waiting any length of time.
 
James_TheVirus said:
They did the same thing on Fleet Street. They spent a summer with a few closures to do smaller fixes, and then began pulling it up as soon as the Ex was done. I don't really think it is an indication of a much longer wait...TTC Operations probably decided that the slowdown needed to be dealt with now, rather than waiting any length of time.
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TTC also did that on Bathurst at Fort York, but in the end, they rebuilt the tracks since they could not wait for the new bridge to be built.

No one has an idea when the bridge is to be built these days.

TTC has slow order on the bridge again, as the expansion joints have fail again. When will TTC learn that their expasion joint don't work.

As for QQ, its another case that TTC cannot wait until the main project gets underway if it wants to run regular service during the summer months. Its is also a safe guard if this project is delay.

The plan has always been that construction of the new road system would start after the EX.

Downside is, the project will not be finish for the 1812 event next year when the tall ships will be on display or the following year.

As for the eastern extension, it is dead until Ford leaves the mayor seat.
 
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