Toronto Queens Quay & Water's Edge Revitalization | ?m | ?s | Waterfront Toronto

From the May 18, 2011 CEO Report to the Board:

Queens Quay Design
The design team has finalized and submitted a 90% Detailed Design submission. This task included coordination with utility companies, city departments (including Transportation, Technical Services, Toronto Water, etc), TTC, and various community stakeholders.

Queens Quay Funding
90% Detailed Design has been completed and submitted however, the team is currently on hold as we wait for funding to complete Detailed Design and commence Construction Documentation. The delayed signing of the Contribution Agreement continues to impact the release of Requests For Proposals (“RFPsâ€) and has now delayed design work. WT continues to work with the City of Toronto to try and secure the funding.

Community Consultation
On April 12, 2011 and again on April 29, 2011, WT met with the Queens Quay BIA to better understand their needs and to work together to ensure that the future designs meet there needs wherever possible. WT also hosted a general stakeholder meeting, the Queens Quay Working Group, on April 26, 2011.

Ongoing Coordination with the City
WT continues to have success in working through extensive feedback received from the City on the first design submission. Many of the issues raised have been reviewed together and resolutions found. Major issues still pending resolution include: use of Silva Cell tree soil system in the public Right of Way, TTC median curb height and fire's access to it, and vehicular curbside strategies including bus management.
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Thanks for the update. I was really looking forward to this project proceeding and be ready for the Pan Am games. Sadly it looks like this project is stalled until we get n urban friendly mayor. :(
 
Queen's Quay Revitalization About to Get Derailed?

Toronto's central waterfront—the heavily-travelled stretch of Queen's Quay between Bathurst and Lower Jarvis—has long been slated for a makeover by Waterfront Toronto. The plans include a complete revamp of the streetscape, and require that the streetcar tracks currently running through the centre of Queens Quay be shifted a bit south from their current location.

Today, the TTC issued a report in anticipation of the next Commission meeting on June 8 [PDF]. In that report: a recommendation that unless Waterfront Toronto come up with the full funding for the revitalization project by the end of this month, the TTC proceed with rebuilding the tracks in their current location. This would mean that if Waterfront Toronto proceeds with its elements of the project later on, some changes to that overall plan would need to be made, though these changes are described in the report as "relatively minor."

As it turns out, one of those minor changes might be to turn Queen's Quay into a one-way street.

The revitalization plan calls for moving the tracks south, having all traffic lanes—in both directions—north of the tracks, and a widened pedestrian concourse south of the tracks. Keeping the tracks in the current location will mean that there is only room for traffic travelling in one direction north of the tracks.

According to the TTC, the tracks are worn and need to be rebuilt relatively urgently (a streetcar derailed in April) as temporary fixes are only going so far; they are planning to do the work during the 2012 construction season. And thus, they say, they cannot wait any longer for Waterfront Toronto to come up with financing for the streetscape revitalization, and must instead proceed with re-laying the tracks in their current location—a smaller project for which the TTC has its own funding.

Waterfront Toronto, meanwhile, told us today that they already have the money, and this is a purely administrative hold-up. We spoke with Marisa Piatteli, who manages government relations for the organization, by phone; she told us that this is not a question of securing financing at all, as the project is already included in the money Waterfront Toronto has been promised by all three levels of government. (WT is the result of a tri-partite agreement between the federal, provincial, and municipal governments, each of which has promised $500 million. WT does not have all the money sitting in an account, however; funds are dispensed on an ongoing basis.) All it requires is shifting funds from other long-term projects to this one, Piatteli emphasized, a simple matter of moving money that has already been promised from one line-item to a different one, to accommodate the time-sensitivity of this particular project. "We have been talking to the TTC about this project for years," Piatteli says, "and there are no problems here except reallocating funds."

The kicker? The level of government that would need to approve the reallocation, according to WT: the City of Toronto.

Waterfront Toronto's budget—the specific allocation of funds for specific projects—gets considered and approved by all three orders of government each year. It was last voted on by city council in February, and will come before them again in January 2012. For reasons that are unclear, the reallocation request was not part of the plan that went before council in February, and thus the money, though everyone knows where it will be coming from, is not yet considered "secured."

We asked Piatteli if WT knew that the TTC was going to request funding guarantees by the end of the month. She says that they did not, and in fact WT was only aware of today's TTC report when Torontoist got in touch with the organization with our questions about it.

Both the TTC and Waterfront Toronto agree that they should be working in concert, and that all the construction projects should, as much as possible, be done in tandem. If the TTC approves the recommendation in this report, then either: the City will have to agree to reallocate the funds within the next month, and the entire revitalization project proceeds; or there will need to be a revised revitalization plan which includes (a) the possibility of turning a two-way street into a one-way street, and (b) putting Waterfront Toronto in the position of having to rip up roadwork in order to accomodate its own, later construction, rather than utilizing the TTC's construction period to do work as well.

Any guesses as to how our mayor feels about that?

http://torontoist.com/2011/06/queens_quay_revitalization_about_to_get_derailed.php

Hmmmmm...
 
The TTC was supposed to rebuild Queens Quay in 2009 instead of 2012, and only delayed it at the request of Waterfront Toronto ... 3 years later and Waterfront Toronto STILL doesn't have the funding in place to do it? This should have been in their budget years ago.

That agency seems totally incompetent at times. I can certainly understand the temptation of some of those in council which simply want to eliminate the agency.

Not surprising TTC wants to go ahead and get their track fixed before it gets to the point you can't run streetcars anymore!
 
nfitz said:
The TTC was supposed to rebuild Queens Quay in 2009 instead of 2012, and only delayed it at the request of Waterfront Toronto ... 3 years later and Waterfront Toronto STILL doesn't have the funding in place to do it? This should have been in their budget years ago.

That agency seems totally incompetent at times. I can certainly understand the temptation of some of those in council which simply want to eliminate the agency.

Not surprising TTC wants to go ahead and get their track fixed before it gets to the point you can't run streetcars anymore!
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The cost to do this work is beyond what was budget for or have funds for at this time. The cost has gone up trying to please everyone including TTC.

One idea that was put forth was to do the work in 2 phases for the central section, but to so would cause all kinds of problems as well costing more. It got shot down in the end.

There was an idea made years ago to make QQ an westbound only road that was opposed by most people including me.

There is a total lack of funds to do what is needed to be done and that comes from all 3 levels, not the agency. Having said that, the agency has over spent on a few projects that does not help the cash flow to please various groups and the city.

If you want a waterfront done right, it going to cost a lot more than one think it should.

TTC is a fault here for how they built the line in the first place or who every the city had designing this ROW in the first place.

The blame for the waterfront lies squarely with the city as it was them that moved the existing shoreline south from where it existed in the 1700's to the 1,000-3,800' where it is today. This also applies to the poor urban planning back in the 60-70's to what was there before the agency came into existent.
 
drum118 said:
If you want a waterfront done right, it going to cost a lot more than one think it should.
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It may well - but Waterfront Toronto's inaction and dithering have lead to an agency that has achieved much less than it could have. Good grief, why haven't they put mechanisms in place to fund Waterfront development from development fees ... just like any other city would have done. Essentially we are building a new chunk of city ... this doesn't cost other cities on the bottom line - some even manage to use development fees to keep taxes low as well!
 
nfitz said:
It may well - but Waterfront Toronto's inaction and dithering have lead to an agency that has achieved much less than it could have. Good grief, why haven't they put mechanisms in place to fund Waterfront development from development fees ... just like any other city would have done. Essentially we are building a new chunk of city ... this doesn't cost other cities on the bottom line - some even manage to use development fees to keep taxes low as well!
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Their main future funding is from development charges, but only on the property they have control over. That has been an serious issue since most of those property require million of dollars upfront to clean the land before anything can be built. At the same time, developers need to be building buildings and that not the case at this time. Since they have no control over various property, they have no say on what, how or should be built to meet the master plan for the waterfront or get funds from them to support the overall plan.

Even trying to get a walkway and bridge over the Spadina Slip has meet strong opposition from the residents of some of the condos who feel that the public domain land in front of their building is for them only and don’t want the public blocking their views.

River City on King St E has had a hole in the ground for over a year and nothing has started on that project.

The waterfront was promises 7 LRT's which was to be paid by them from the city for 2007 to promote the waterfront redevelopment. 4 years later, no LRT's and none until 2014 at the earliest.

Other city waterfront projects have cost those cities on the bottom line in the beginning, but recovery it and a profit after they were built. The big different between them and Toronto, they had a vision and took the steps to make that vision come true, while Toronto sits on their hands.
 
To me this is nothing more than King Ford waving his wand from within his hidden lair. No democracy, no debate, just a big ego and small, backward thinking. Thanks Ford, that 10 bucks a month your saving me is much better than having an improved and safer city.
 
Ford may be a moronic idiot, but if people are going to lob him softballs, things will happen. The previous government had years to do this; streetcar construction was planned for 2009, and will slip to at least 2013 at this rate. I don't think it's fair to lay ALL the blame for this at Ford's feet.
 
spaced said:
To me this is nothing more than King Ford waving his wand from within his hidden lair. No democracy, no debate, just a big ego and small, backward thinking. Thanks Ford, that 10 bucks a month your saving me is much better than having an improved and safer city.
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What:confused: the problems were talking here is way before Ford entered the picture.
 
Don't forget there was a contest to see who and what plan would be used for the waterfront and that took time. Once decided, it takes time to come up with working drawings for public impute before going out for tender and construction.

It is only during the design work that you can get a handle on what the cost is going to be.

With all the requests from both the public and the various of levels of the City including TTC, cost climb as various items that were never part of the plan in the first place, had to be added in.

Yes this is one case Ford cannot be blame for, except not adding the extra funds to getting this project moving come September.

TTC work slip because they decided to take part in the rebuilding the QQ and having a better operating line after completion compare to what there now. At the same time, TTC maintained the line wasn't up to par years ago and things fell apart a lot faster because of it.

You can do things that are cheap looking and will not last long or you do the correct way that will cost more as well lasting longer. I am not for the cheap side here if we want to be a first class city in the first place.
 
nfitz said:
It may well - but Waterfront Toronto's inaction and dithering have lead to an agency that has achieved much less than it could have. Good grief, why haven't they put mechanisms in place to fund Waterfront development from development fees ... just like any other city would have done.
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Welcome to the wonderful world of jurisdictional squabbling by all three levels of government. But don't blame WT for the time required for public consultations, detailed planning, and environmental assessments. All they've done is jump through the hoops they've been required to, and play the hand they were dealt.

By all means *do* blame all three levels of government for failing to pony up the rest of the money for QQ and failing to give it more independence. But I've got a bad feeling that Mayor Robbie now sees his chance to torpedo the Socialist's Waterfront once and for all.
 
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