Toronto Ontario Place | ?m | ?s | Infrastructure ON

a biosphere of fauna would just turn into a small sad zoo, but I do like the idea of large green houses ideally resembling the existing sphere full fl.ora from Ontario's different forest regions (carolinian, great lakes/st lawrence low lands, boreal, taiga) much like Edmonton's Muttart gardens... but spheres. I think the current plan is a great start at least for the warmer parts of the year but an all year indoor attraction I think would help a lot.
 
Torontovibe said:
Exactly! If the government doesn't want to take the risk of doing anything with it, just leave it as it is for now. Lease out the Cinesphere and the water play area to private businesses and just keep the park as a public park with free entry. Move a few of the local festivals here and call it a day. Hopefully one day in the future, a government will realize the value of Ontario Place and make something great out of it. If all the amenities/restaurants at OP were leased out to businesses but left just as it is, it would still be a great public space. You can't beat the setting and location. It just needs a streetcar stop near the main entrance.
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Isn't that what they are doing? I don't see a streetcar stop having that much of an effect on the relative isolation Ontario Place is from the rest of the city/downtown/waterfront. I can imagine leasing the spaces a monumental challenge without establishing a base for some industry there first. Convention goers and lost Liberty Village residents won't be enough to keep the doors to the restaurants you propose open.
 
maestro said:
Isn't that what they are doing? I don't see a streetcar stop having that much of an effect on the relative isolation Ontario Place is from the rest of the city/downtown/waterfront. I can imagine leasing the spaces a monumental challenge without establishing a base for some industry there first. Convention goers and lost Liberty Village residents won't be enough to keep the doors to the restaurants you propose open.
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A base population is required - both to generate revenue for business, and to create atmosphere. Moving a college in here might do the trick - I can't imagine a more interesting place to study! Nb: idea based on observation that the opening of the Maple Leaf Gardens mixed-use education/retail site led to a remarkable amount of animation.
 
College Park said:
A base population is required - both to generate revenue for business, and to create atmosphere. Moving a college in here might do the trick - I can't imagine a more interesting place to study! Nb: idea based on observation that the opening of the Maple Leaf Gardens mixed-use education/retail site led to a remarkable amount of animation.
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Maybe a military academy where the cadets wear red to add some colour to the place and it being Canada and all.
 
maestro said:
Isn't that what they are doing? I don't see a streetcar stop having that much of an effect on the relative isolation Ontario Place is from the rest of the city/downtown/waterfront. I can imagine leasing the spaces a monumental challenge without establishing a base for some industry there first. Convention goers and lost Liberty Village residents won't be enough to keep the doors to the restaurants you propose open.
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No, Ontario Place is closed to the general public. The only way you can get in now, is if you have tickets to a concert at the Molson Amphitheatre or a wedding/corporate event at Atlantis. The park needs to be reopen to the public and programmed to entertain the masses. Programming has everything to do with Ontario Place's success. Ontario Place is not isolated, it's on the cusp of downtown, it just needs a closer streetcar. People should not have to walk through the Ex to get there. Once up and running, OP will have no problem attracting crowds just like the CNE, if it's done properly.

In Toronto, if you put on an event and you do it well, people will support it. You see that with festivals all over the city. When it's done cheaply, with little effort, people won't come back but if you put some money and effort into it, the crowds will come and keep coming. Torontonians love gathering in large crowds.

What I find interesting about this site, is that for a well educated group of people, so many of you are easily manipulated by the government. You just accept what you're fed and never question it. If the government tells you Ontario Place is going down hill and not worth saving, you just assume that it's true. You never even consider that the government might not have their own agenda? I've been going to Ontario Place every year since the day it opened. I've been in awe of it from day one but I don't let that cloud my judgement. I saw with my own eyes what Mike Harris and Dalton McGuinty did to it over the years. Even with governments allowing OP to deteriorate, it still was a popular place. I was still going to OP, even in it's last year of operation. I've made videos of the place, so I know it was never quite as empty as the government wanted people to believe.

Why would they want to mislead the public? Governments always take the short-sighted, easy way out that saves them money and makes them look like they're watching the tax payers dollars. (but at what price?) Oh they'll spend a billion dollars on cancelling gas plants to win votes but to spend 10 million on a major tourist attraction, well, that's another story.

So, was Ontario Place a dying Amusement park, like Crystal Beach? Read this and tell me if things add up.

http://www.thestar.com/opinion/edit...ents_tell_a_story_of_success_not_failure.html


http://www.rethinkingontarioplace.com/history/
 
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Torontovibe said:
Once up and running, OP will have no problem attracting crowds just like the CNE, if it's done properly.
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Umm... the CNE is a deserted wasteland most hours of the day, and most days of the week. It's only ever busy for a few hours when a TFC game is on, or when something is happening at the Direct Energy Centre. This does not attract any permanent businesses.

The CNE and Ontario Place suffer from the same problems. They are too disconnected from the city, and there is no reason to go there.

It's not the government telling me that Ontario Place went downhill, its me. I hated it. It was one of the worst day trips in my memory as a kid. Canada's Wonderland was where I wanted to be on my weekends, not OP. There just wasn't enough at OP to make the trip there worth it, or at least nothing of interest to people in my age range.
 
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Tuscani01 said:
Umm... the CNE is a deserted wasteland most hours of the day, and most days of the week. It's only ever busy for a few hours when a TFC game is on, or when something is happening at the Direct Energy Centre. This does not attract any permanent businesses.

The CNE and Ontario Place suffer from the same problems. They are too disconnected from the city, and there is no reason to go there.

It's not the government telling me that Ontario Place went downhill, its me. I hated it. It was one of the worst day trips in my memory as a kid. Canada's Wonderland was where I wanted to be on my weekends, not OP. There just wasn't enough at OP to make the trip there worth it, or at least nothing of interest to people in my age range.
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I was talking about when the ex is on and there is a reason to go. You have to give people a reason to go to Ontario Place. Canada's Wonderland is not isolated but Ontario Place, right on the cusp of downtown, is? How many downtowners want to trek way up to Wonderland? And yet, some do, even taking public transit. For them, it's way out of the way but they go.

If you give people a reason to go to Ontario Place, they will come. The setting of Ontario Place, islands on the waterfront, is a much nicer one than Canada's Wonderland. If people appreciate the beautiful setting, Wonderland isn't even in the same league as Ontario Place. Of course, beauty isn't enough, you need activities and good programming to attract the crowds. But let's not forget that Ontario Place was getting up to a million people a year and that's not chump change.

You can't beat the setting of Ontario Place in Toronto, except maybe the Scarborough Bluffs but when you include the location beside downtown, this site can't be beat. Canada's Wonderland as a location, sucks! It's ugly, suburban and way the hell out there. Not everybody in Toronto wants to go that far out. It's nice to have a fun, beautiful, amusement area, so close to the core. I don't think we should give that up so easily, without even trying to make it work.

Imagine what would have happened to The Distillery, if people would have given up on it, without even trying to make it work. It wasn't that long ago when people were saying that The Distillery will never work. It was considered too isolated, run down and just not viable by many. Then along came someone with some imagination and money. Look what happened.

Just because some people have no vision and can't imagine it ever being successful, doesn't make it so. If you make it a great place, worth visiting, people will come. It's foolish to not even make the effort for something as valuable as this. How can you not be impressed by the look and setting of Ontario Place? It's beyond me!

When you take the architecture, the islands built on the lake, across from Hanlan's Point and look at the setting beside the downtown core, there is no park in Ontario that compares to the spectacular beauty of Ontario Place. For me, it's hands down, the most beautiful park on Ontario.
 
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If you want to not make the CNE and OP isolated from the city you need to build adequate public transit to it. I posted this map in the DRL thread but it applies here too:

WWLRT needs to be built and it needs an alignment along Lakeshore to serve CNE/OP/BMO Field. Liberty Village can be accommodated by GO-RER (purple), SmartTrack (red) and the DRL can serve Queen further north (blue).

xBwEYWL.png
 
Ontario Place was originally successful because Queen's Park was motivated and they hired people that created a cutting edge facility that resonated with the general public at the time. It was intended as, an was a showcase for the province...now it's an embarrassment. The failure isn't a secret.

And that's what it's going to take to make it work again. Except Queen's park doesn't seem very interested, and you will never get anything cutting edge by putting John Tory in charge of it (quite possibly the most boring human being to ever travel down the birth canal).

Basically next door, you have Harbourfront Centre, which shows that a very successful showcase for culture and education that engages the public is still very popular and viable. Harbourfront and Ontario Place were both created about the same time and were both meant to revitalize Toronto's waterfront. 40-odd years later, Harbourfront welcomes 17 million visitors...Ontario Place...zero. Again...no big secret...just look at the Board of Directors and management team of both venues. Ontario Place failed because it was mismanaged...period.

And it's a shame, because Ontario Place has a very enviable location and existing infrastructure....it could be an outstanding venue again.
 
The question becomes, can we call Ontario Place a success based on public perception alone and ignore the books altogether? I've been in a few meetings where Tory was an invited guest speaker. I never feel asleep. I don't know how he'll translate into a mayor though.
 
The problem isn't that Tory is boring. Tory doesn't have even the slightest bit of creativity, so keep him away from positions that require some creative thought and good ideas. He was a disaster as the head honcho in charge of redeveloping Ontario Place. He really had no good ideas, after 6 months of study. Working on traffic problems is a much better job for Tory.
 
Anyway no matter what you think of some of my suggestions my point is that this is a Ontario facility and land, paid for by all Ontarians for Ontarians and therefore should be a center for all Ontarians to enjoy and explore and not just Torontonians.

Ontario Place can become something unique again but it requires thinking outside the box. The current Ontario Place reflected the demographics, trends, interests, and values of the time but times change and Ontario Place didn't. Ontario Place needs a bold new vision but one that remains true to it's roots as being a showcase and destination for all Ontarians who's hard earned tax dollars built and maintained it in the first place.
 
Ontario Place didn't change? You don't know what you're talking about. Ontario Place completely changed from what it once was. It changed for the worst, as they closed down many of the attractions and handed those spaces over to private companies who made them off limits to the public. They closed down some of the most popular attractions, yet failed to open anything that would make the park better. In other words, it was changed for the worst. (certainly in the last decade) Harris and McGuinty were responsible for that.
 
Seeing as OP is somewhat of a southerly extension of the Exhibition, has there been any talk of integrating the two in anyway?...or would that just lead to the usual Canadian jurisdictional selfishness? That whole precinct should be integrated and built into something grand ("grand" as in beautiful/interesting/attractive). Don't look to me for ideas though, I'm too busy trying to make rent.
 
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