Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

[M II A II R II K]

They had better do it in phases as opposed to finishing the south section and starting the whole process again from scratch to start the north section.

The only opportunity for relief before this opens is to order more trains for Line 1 to take advantage of the signalling capacity since they don't currently have it. Since they'll order more trains anyway to replace the T1s , they can order enough to fill up the capacity. And be sure to make the trains long enough to completely fill the platform length for even more capacity.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

And be sure to make the trains long enough to completely fill the platform length for even more capacity.

I don't think they will ever order trains the length of the platforms as some of them very in length, if anything they will probably stay with a train the length of the Toronto Rocket trains.

 

[M II A II R II K]

The end doors can remain closed at shorter stations.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

The end doors can remain closed at shorter stations.

Shorter stations aren't the problem its actly that some are longer because of curves in or at the ends of the platforms.

 

[M II A II R II K]

With ATC the 2027 rolling stock should be lengthened regardless, and more of them to fill the signalling capacity. Platform doors would also be nice.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

With ATC the 2027 rolling stock should be lengthened regardless, and more of them to fill the signalling capacity. Platform doors would also be nice.

That's all and good however so far only Line 1 and presumably line 4 are funded for ATC.There currently are no plans for when or if line 2 will receive ATC. Same goes with platform egd doors they are still just an idea at this point with no funding. Even with all of that there may not be much benefit to trains the length of the platform as most stations the train already fils the platform it except for a about a foot or so at either end( there are longer ones but that's do more to how the station is laid out and stuff.)

 

[TheTigerMaster]

They had better do it in phases as opposed to finishing the south section and starting the whole process again from scratch to start the north section.

The only opportunity for relief before this opens is to order more trains for Line 1 to take advantage of the signalling capacity since they don't currently have it. Since they'll order more trains anyway to replace the T1s , they can order enough to fill up the capacity. And be sure to make the trains long enough to completely fill the platform length for even more capacity.

The T1 replacement order will probably be the same order that accommodates the additional fleet requirements for the SSE, DRL Short and (hopefully) DRL Long too (if the latter gets approved soon enough). I suppose the trains eventually destined for the DRL would initially run on the Yonge Line to provide additional service there, until they're eventually shifted to DRL.

 

[aquateam]

That's all and good however so far only Line 1 and presumably line 4 are funded for ATC.There currently are no plans for when or if line 2 will receive ATC. Same goes with platform egd doors they are still just an idea at this point with no funding. Even with all of that there may not be much benefit to trains the length of the platform as most stations the train already fils the platform it except for a about a foot or so at either end( there are longer ones but that's do more to how the station is laid out and stuff.)

Not sure what you're talking about: Line 2 ATC signal conversion is fully funded and is considered a pre-requisite for the SSE: when the SSE is built, it will be built with only ATC, not the legacy signalling system, so line 2 needs to be upgraded before the SSE is ready for testing.

John Tory said the $840-million in new funding for 2016 earmarked for upgrades and improvements to existing TTC service as announced by Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, would allow the transit commission to get started on a number of essential projects, such as re-signalling the Bloor line, purchasing more buses and completing accessibility improvements at all subway stations.
[...]
Currently the TTC has close to $3 billion in unfunded maintenance and repair work planned for the next 10 years, ranging in scale from immense projects like converting Bloor’s signalling system and purchasing new subway trains for the line to smaller but no less important concerns such as upgrading drainage and ventilation systems.

From the approved 2017-2026 capital budget:

 

[44 North]

I think that it's just you who notices these things, most other people haven't spent as many untold hours hunched over maps of Toronto, trying to make fantasy maps with varying degrees of schematisation/geographic accuracy.

Heh, not much hunching for me, but maybe. Though I probably could've spotted that abomination of a map when I was five.

The T1 replacement order will probably be the same order that accommodates the additional fleet requirements for the SSE, DRL Short and (hopefully) DRL Long too (if the latter gets approved soon enough). I suppose the trains eventually destined for the DRL would initially run on the Yonge Line to provide additional service there, until they're eventually shifted to DRL.

What you say makes sense, right now. But what Wisla posted on the previous page re: asset ownership could throw a wrench in the types of vehicles we could expect. If ML owns the line - as well as being in charge of designing, building, financing, maintaining - would Toronto's subway be the RL rolling stock? Would the line even have a wye at Lines 2 or 4? Sure the TTC would operate, but everything else would be Metrolinx-owned (and I guess that goes for vehicles too).

And again presuming Prov ownership, would the TR (or future TTC gauge Movia 2.0 variant) be their first choice of vehicles? Maybe they could find something more optimal. If they put out an open tender for vehicles, and/or decide to exclude Bombardier from bidding, I think it's plausible we'll end up with something different.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

What you say makes sense, right now. But what Wisla posted on the previous page re: asset ownership could throw a wrench in the types of vehicles we could expect. If ML owns the line - as well as being in charge of designing, building, financing, maintaining - would Toronto's subway be the RL rolling stock? Would the line even have a wye at Lines 2 or 4? Sure the TTC would operate, but everything else would be Metrolinx-owned (and I guess that goes for vehicles too).

And again presuming Prov ownership, would the TR (or future TTC gauge Movia 2.0 variant) be their first choice of vehicles? Maybe they could find something more optimal. If they put out an open tender for vehicles, and/or decide to exclude Bombardier from bidding, I think it's plausible we'll end up with something different.

It actually doesn't make sense for it to be different gauge as if they keep TTC gauge for it they can easily interchange vehicle in the event of operational issues like for example there have been a couple of incident at Greenwood yard like for example a collision between tow trains and also a fire at the entrance to the yard. Both times they moved sapre trains from Line 1 to line 2 for the morning rush and part of the day until things were called up. Alos last summer when they had a large number of T1's out of service with various problems with the AC units on them they sent a handful of unused Toronto Roct trains to run on Line 2 each day. Having a connection to other parts of the system can be very important as that's one of the reasons why the 509 streetcar was built as well to provide redundancy for Spadina in the event of problems. If you recall well they were doing work on Bathurst Street between Bathurst station and Sat. Calir they actually stored extra CLRVs in the middle of Bathurst Street as they couldn't get them into the rest of the system do to only having the one route to and from St. Clair.

 

[Edward Skira]

You folks really think they are going to change something? It'll be one line with the standard TTC subways.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

What you say makes sense, right now. But what Wisla posted on the previous page re: asset ownership could throw a wrench in the types of vehicles we could expect. If ML owns the line - as well as being in charge of designing, building, financing, maintaining - would Toronto's subway be the RL rolling stock? Would the line even have a wye at Lines 2 or 4? Sure the TTC would operate, but everything else would be Metrolinx-owned (and I guess that goes for vehicles too).

The TPAP for this line is well underway. This TPAP includes a wye at Pape Station and absolutely no provisions for any yard facilities, meaning that whatever vehicles this line is using will be stored and maintained at TTC facilities elsewhere on the network.

A last minute change in vehicle type (necessitating a yard and removal of a wye) would delay the project substantially and increase costs. The chances of this happening are near zero.

 

[Leo_Chan]

The TPAP for this line is well underway. This TPAP includes a wye at Pape Station and absolutely no provisions for any yard facilities, meaning that whatever vehicles this line is using will be stored and maintained at TTC facilities elsewhere on the network.

A last minute change in vehicle type (necessitating a yard and removal of a wye) would delay the project substantially and increase costs. The chances of this happening are near zero.

Toronto is going to win the lottery for $50 Billion! There's a chance of that happening right?

But the chance of not using TR with TTC gauge is definitely zero though.

 

[gweed123]

The TPAP for this line is well underway. This TPAP includes a wye at Pape Station and absolutely no provisions for any yard facilities, meaning that whatever vehicles this line is using will be stored and maintained at TTC facilities elsewhere on the network.

A last minute change in vehicle type (necessitating a yard and removal of a wye) would delay the project substantially and increase costs. The chances of this happening are near zero.

Agreed. I wish it would be using RER rolling stock to interface with the RER network, but at this point it's almost a certainly going to use TTC rolling stock to interface with the subway network. The biggest uncertainty in the rolling stock/yard situation is where they'll move the Bloor-Danforth trains to, since as you mention there's no provision in the Relief Line plan for a new yard on the alignment.

 

[jcam]

Agreed. I wish it would be using RER rolling stock to interface with the RER network, but at this point it's almost a certainly going to use TTC rolling stock to interface with the subway network. The biggest uncertainty in the rolling stock/yard situation is where they'll move the Bloor-Danforth trains to, since as you mention there's no provision in the Relief Line plan for a new yard on the alignment.

I imagine that they could hand Greenwood over to DRL, so long as an Obico yard comes to fruition for Line 2. You could even avoid a Pape wye by instead building a spur under or alongside the GO line between the Gerrard station and Greenwood.