Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

[TheTigerMaster]

Spanish solution is everyone's favourite solution. They'd be foolish not to use the Spanish solution at Pape Station. It truly is the cure for all our capacity ailments.

 

[Leo_Chan]

I don't think design is at a stage where you could say what the platform configuration would be, but I would expect it to be expandable to a full Spanish solution

Spanish solution is everyone's favourite solution. They'd be foolish not to use the Spanish solution at Pape Station. It truly is the cure for all our capacity ailments.

Still unconfirmed in terms of planning and design right?

 

[WislaHD]

And the City still has no funding to build the southern leg, let alone doing the northern leg too. Subways are far from optimal to serve outer "regions". RER is what's needed for (to quote Metrolinx a number of times in their latest publication) "Regional" needs.

No where on the Relief Line North or Relief Line South route should be considered as "outer regions" for subway technology.

Sheppard and Don Mills to Queen via Relief Line would be a quicker commute than Cheppard and Yonge to Queen via Yonge Line.

I agree with the premise of your point about RER and Toronto's "outer regions", but not that it applies to the Relief Line.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Still unconfirmed in terms of planning and design right?

Yup, of course. Probably won't be confirmed until the EA/TPAP is complete.

 

[Leo_Chan]

Yup, of course. Probably won't be confirmed until the EA/TPAP is complete.

It's going to be a slow 2 years and boring.

 

[steveintoronto]

No where on the Relief Line North or Relief Line South route should be considered as "outer regions" for subway technology.

Sheppard and Don Mills to Queen via Relief Line would be a quicker commute than Cheppard and Yonge to Queen via Yonge Line.

I agree with the premise of your point about RER and Toronto's "outer regions", but not that it applies to the Relief Line.

http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pdf/board_agenda/20170628/20170628_BoardMtg_YSNERL_Report_EN.pdf

 

[W. K. Lis]

In China, it would start next month and be completed in five years. Any NIMBYs will be shown a nice small room with maximum security 24 hours a day.

In Canada, it will be studied for two years, reported in three, and maybe (a BIG MAYBE) started in ten years. Any NIMBYs will add a couple of years of delay.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Why are people obsessed with the DRL being built as an orphan system just because Metrolinx want to be apart of it now. It is a Toronto Idea and should be Toronto Design. Making it part of the RER system is ridiculous and it makes more sense for it to be part of the TTC subway network. RER just seems to be a big dream from people that think that people will, pay extra money to take surface rail from extra sations on the go lines.

 

[Johnny Au]

In China, it would start next month and be completed in five years. Any NIMBYs will be shown a nice small room with maximum security 24 hours a day.

Oh, and NIMBYs may have their organs harvested as well.

 

[steveintoronto]

It is a Toronto Idea and should be Toronto Design.

Hey, now we're talking. So put the money where the mouth is. Good luck on that. You're absolutely right. The province should build it's own separate RER line to serve the core and tie east, west and north together across Toronto.

How's that SSE coming along there?

Btw: I was speaking to an architect involved in the design of the SSE (or at least preliminary, it also is unfunded) and an "EEB" (the term she used) 'Emergency exit building' that is situated at mid-point along the length is being done with being turned into a station at a later point in time. Curious...forward thinking, for a project that has no funding. How Toronto can you get?

 

[steveintoronto]

Oh, and NIMBYs may have their organs harvested as well.

It's odd, they don't do that in the UK, and yet Crossrail, a magnitude greater in complexity, (it is claimed to be the largest infrastructure project in Europe) was approved and will be finished *on time and on budget* within a decade.

They do harvest fish and chips though...

 

[44 North]

Investing in a 'captive' orphan system like the TTC's subway makes little sense when being viewed in a "Regional" context, being paid for by the Province, and being forward compatible for expansion and through-running. New subway lines per-se are rare in the progressive world right now. Extensions, yes, new-builds, no. There's a reason that RER is supplanting subway in many/most instances: You get a lot more yield per investment, and you get vehicles that can and do run at a much higher speed, and run-through *without having to transfer* to outer regions of cities.

The cost and size of boring the gauge of tunnel needed for RER stock is the same as for the present Metrolinx Crosstown. In fact, some RER systems use a slightly smaller tunnel, but Cdns are used to larger sized double deck cars. That is a discussion in itself, but if you start planning "Wyes" and ramps off to Greenwood (which btw, in the present configuration, can't accommodate the new unit trains), you might as well stone many birds with one kill and run RER across mid-core downtown, relieve Union Station, relieve the subways, relieve having to transfer for many passengers in the core, and avoid having to start knocking the present subway infrastructure apart yet again to expand interchange points. Overhead 25kVAC catenary systems are also more efficient and capable of driving traction motors with a much lower source impedance (roughly known by most as 'line sag'). It also allows the use of track sharing with bi-modal LRVs, as done in a number of European, Australian and Asian cities. These can then branch off onto the Metrolinx LRT lines (Crosstown, etc).

"Standalone" from the TTC, fully interconnected with RER and eventually completely a loop through the central core from east to west and back onto the Georgetown corridor, perhaps a link to Lakeshore West, and easily, if persons talk of "Wyes" and "ramps" to Greenwood, doing the latter for Lakeshore East RER running initially to the Osgoode terminus, and later all the way through out to the west of Toronto in a "through-running" manner.

This is being furthered in many cities, all with world leading systems.
http://www.rethinknyc.org/through-running/

RER is basically a concept at this point, with the latest incarnation being relatively fresh. If I had to say which is less "orphan", Toronto's subway system that actually exists or an ever-changing Prov idea on paper, I'd say it's the one that actually exists.

Having said that, I personally don't want Prov ownership of the RL and would much rather have TO own the assets (with full interoperability of existing subway). And to be quite honest I don't like the Prov trying to take control of the RL file or put it on the same level as YNSE. Was trying to avoid fantasy stuff with my original point (not to say your and others' ideas doesn't have merit). Rather simply observing that if the Prov does own the line and opts for non-TTC rolling stock, it could still be 1:1 identical to existing RL plans/concepts. That is: 100% subway/metro, same alignment, same station locations, but using different trains.

Thinking really outside of the box, I'd propose (think I posted this before) handing over George Vanier school to build an underground yard, with a new school and parks (and maybe a development or two) going back overtop of it. Only other option is really going all the way to the 407.

I think it's fun to discuss possible yard locations, and doesn't deviate too far from original plans (considering RL North/Long is still up in the air). Your George Vanier idea sounds like a nice site for an underground yard + development overtop. But I think there's opportunity elsewhere. In East York perhaps a semi-underground location situated SW-NE between Overlea and North Toronto Sub below the Gatineau hydro corridor; in North York an E-W site at a large expropriated commercial property west of Don Mills (approx at Bond, Mallard, or Kerr); and in Old Toronto obviously Greenwood Yard. All have the benefit of potential mainline rail access for deliveries/construction.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

And to be quite honest I don't like the Prov trying to take control of the RL file or put it on the same level as YNSE

Can you clarify what you mean here?

 

[44 North]

Can you clarify what you mean here?

Oh it just seems like the Prov is trying to take over the RL file to do a quid pro quo for YNSE. IOW they won't assist in funding Toronto's RL if Toronto doesn't make a Yonge extension to Richmond Hill an equal priority, and I guess if the Prov doesn't have sweeping power on RL work like DBFM. Line 1 and any extension is 100% owned by TO, it's ours to decide what to do with, and last I checked any extension scores low by our metrics - so much so that it doesn't crack the top 15 of our planned transit projects. Remember that kerfuffle when it was excluded from our TMP?

And this is purely speculative, but I'm under the impression that with the Prov potentially taking full control of the RL file they'll try to pull some bs where if RL's scope is expanded to include an extension to Eglinton or Sheppard, then Line 1 will have to be extended to Major Mack or something dumb. In the name of some sordid concept of 'fairness'.

 

[Leo_Chan]

ome bs where if RL's scope is expanded to include an extension to Eglinton or Sheppard, then Line 1 will have to be extended to Major Mack or something dumb.

More like extend Line 2 north to Higway 7. But I agree, extending Line 1 (either end) to Major Mack anytime in the near future (50 years) is complete bs.