Toronto One Bloor East | 257.24m | 76s | Great Gulf | Hariri Pontarini

rdaner said:
How about a downtown location for Adonis?!
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I'm not sure the area demos would support that; and for the Mediterranean-inspired, Eataly is one block over.

The other thing is, by suggesting a re-lo, I was looking at no net increase in supermarkets, just one of them upsizing, for which I believe demand is present.

But introducing another brand, might produce excess cannibalization.

If I were to put an Adonis closer to the core, I think I might take a close look at the Greektown MTSA; I might also be tempted by the Fitzrovia development at Bloor/Dufferin.... like a lot.
 
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Northern Light said:
I think a full-service supermarket here would do quite well. I would look to re-lo one of the mini-supermarkets to this location.
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Any supermarket would be great - with the several towers planned and under construction in the area, we are about to become underserviced. A larger Longos would be ideal.
 
Bayer said:
Any supermarket would be great - with the several towers planned and under construction in the area, we are about to become underserviced. A larger Longos would be ideal.
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Go whisper something in their ear.

guestcare@longos.com
 
Any grocery store there will most likely be in the basement, where McEwan's was. So even if that happens, they're still stuck with that massive 2-storey Nordstrom Rack space plus another substantial second floor space facing Bloor (east of Nordstrom) that has been vacant since the building opened.
 
Rascacielo said:
Any grocery store there will most likely be in the basement, where McEwan's was. So even if that happens, they're still stuck with that massive 2-storey Nordstrom Rack space plus another substantial second floor space facing Bloor (east of Nordstrom) that has been vacant since the building opened.
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No one is going into the old McEwan space to use it for a full-line supermarket, it's far too small for that.

There is no reason a supermarket can't go on the second floor here.
 
Plus we'll have somewhere that sells real fruit...unlike that supposed *fruit* store moving in just west of this... 😼
 
Northern Light said:
No one is going into the old McEwan space to use it for a full-line supermarket, its far too small for that.

There is no reason a supermarket can't go on the second floor here.
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It's far too expensive to have a full-line supermarket facing Yonge & Bloor, unless it's Whole Foods (unlikely, given the Avenue Rd location) or something similar. Then again, the landlord may be desperate enough to lease it that we'll end up with a less fancy brand. Or maybe the vacant space is giving them a nice tax write-off that they'll keep it vacant - who cares about dead-zones when your investors are happy?
 
Northern Light said:
There is no reason a supermarket can't go on the second floor here.
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Having never been in the Nordstrom Rack space, I can't speak directly but there are a number of reasons why it's hard to retrofit second floor space for a supermarket:

1. Loading/Garbage removal (wet and dry) - the requirements for generally both are much higher and significantly different than non-food retailers.
2. Refrigeration - the weight and size of required refrigeration, both in FOH and BOH.
3. Access - the need to accommodate the volume of people in and out and the ability for them to transport bags of groceries.
4. HVAC requirements - different HVAC requirements than other retailers which is especially likely more of an issue in the base of a condo development.
5. Ceiling height - the requirement for a decent amount of clear ceiling height to allow for visible aisle markers.
6. Layout - more stringent layout requirements than other retailers.

I also wouldn't be surprised if First Capital is waiting for the major international retailer to open across the street, so that they can use this as a "shadow" anchor for their space.
 
PEC said:
Having never been in the Nordstrom Rack space, I can't speak directly but there are a number of reasons why it's hard to retrofit second floor space for a supermarket:

1. Loading/Garbage removal (wet and dry) - the requirements for generally both are much higher and significantly different than non-food retailers.
2. Refrigeration - the weight and size of required refrigeration, both in FOH and BOH.
3. Access - the need to accommodate the volume of people in and out and the ability for them to transport bags of groceries.
4. HVAC requirements - different HVAC requirements than other retailers which is especially likely more of an issue in the base of a condo development.
5. Ceiling height - the requirement for a decent amount of clear ceiling height to allow for visible aisle markers.
6. Layout - more stringent layout requirements than other retailers.

I also wouldn't be surprised if First Capital is waiting for the major international retailer to open across the street, so that they can use this as a "shadow" anchor for their space.
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With great respect, multiple Toronto supermarkets are already one floor up. More are being planned. It's a very common choice around the world; and not particularly challenging. Loblaws has multiple stores, both free-standing and under towers with the store situated on a second level. It has also introduced stores into to tight, awkwardly shaped spaces, via retrofit (see Peter Street City Market)
Likewise, you can find Food Basics up a floor and Longos (3rd floor) too in North York; and there are other examples as well.

Consumer access at any level other than grade is achieved similarly in all formats, elevators, escalators and movators (escalators in ramp-style).

The Rack space on the second floor is accessed this way now.

Refrigeration may be an issue insofar as having the proper power supply; and as with oven and regular HVAC venting is required as well. It's certainly much easier to have these laid in when a space is being built; but a retrofit is not any more challenging for these things on floor 2 than at-grade.

Garbage movement and Goods movement are essentially the same issue here; sufficient freight elevator capacity needs to be in place.

Ceiling height is a non-issue in a large commercial format space. Have a walk through many supermarkets that feature relatively low ceilings. Sure, 8ft would not be adequate, but 10ft is workable and more is great.

This is the upper floor of 'The Rack' on Bloor:

1678200566138.png

Taken from: https://www.blogto.com/fashion/nordstrom-rack-yonge-bloor-toronto/

Looking at thee assorted images in the piece, I would suggest there is at least 10ft of universal clearance, probably closer to 12ft; though some of the AHUs are hanging low. That, however is comparatively easy fix or work-around.

Suffice to say, I don't know that that is the direction they will go with the space, but I don't see it as particularly problematic, absent evidence to the contrary.

I think the biggest issues are likely to be a) preferred rent; b) Whether Hudson's Bay Centre across the street attempts to fill the ground floor of the former Hudson's Bay store with a full-line supermarket.
 
Considering some of the demographics in the condo and the surrounding area, I think a T&T or Galleria store would work really well here. I've passed by the small scale H-Mart and Galleria stores in the area and they are always busy.
 
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