Toronto Minto Westside | 68.88m | 20s | Minto Group | Wallman Architects

I dont think Seatle or Boston have or will ever have the condo boom Toronto is experiencing... The people need to go somewhere and preferibly NOT 905 or random towers around kipling or Kennedy... EUROPE is a great example. However EUROPEAN cities are so old that when they were contstructed those mid rise buildings were considered high rise. Im all for MidRISE but from EGlinton and NORTH... and from Dufferin to the WEST and from the DVP to the EAST.... there is tons of midrise potential in the suburbs.. I think that the new downsview park and the lawrence heights redevelopment will show this.. However neither of those places are downtown.... AGAIN keep the "Draper Streets" and revitalize the rest.
 
I would disagree with the statement. Here in Phoenix we have many sites in the down area that have sat empty (not even generating income as parking lots) because the owners of those lands refuse to lower their price and the city refuses to increase densities to make any potential purchase economical for development.
 
sixrings said:
I dont think Seatle or Boston have or will ever have the condo boom Toronto is experiencing... The people need to go somewhere and preferibly NOT 905 or random towers around kipling or Kennedy... EUROPE is a great example. However EUROPEAN cities are so old that when they were contstructed those mid rise buildings were considered high rise. Im all for MidRISE but from EGlinton and NORTH... and from Dufferin to the WEST and from the DVP to the EAST.... there is tons of midrise potential in the suburbs.. I think that the new downsview park and the lawrence heights redevelopment will show this.. However neither of those places are downtown.... AGAIN keep the "Draper Streets" and revitalize the rest.
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It's a complete falacy that highrise is the only means of achieving high density. Take the area of cityplace and superimpose it on Back Bay in Boston, or Wicker Park in Chicago, or Berlin, and the density is comparable if not greater in those other places.
And they are much more interesting to boot.
 
The primary motivating force behind highrise is profit, not the desire to build community or to provide housing.
 
sixrings: We simply do not plan in the huge several-sq-km blocks that you are advocating. We plan on the basis of a few city blocks at a time, sometimes a single block at a time. There are so many more factors in play in creating a liveable city than can be sorted out by simply drawing lines down the middle of arbitrary major arterials.
 
I am trying my best to follow the arguments of everyone on this, as this issue is perhaps the most important to the future of the city.

The Kitty seems to want just this area saved from development. I am in agreement with this, in the sense that I agree that density can be achieved by allowing many midrise structures at similar levels to many City Place type developments with huge spaces in between - with a better result. Many of King West's structures can only be saved if highrise is ruled out as well, since they don't enjoy Draper's heritage status yet add all the charm to the neighbourhood that it possesses.

On the other hand, I also see the desire for going tall in this specific location. Does Kitty believe that the lot across the street (Bathurst neighbouring on the rail lands) should be midrise too? What exactly are the boundaries here? What does everyone think should happen to the Globe and Mail site? Midrise?

In the end, the issue for me is more about design than height. This area is next to many tall buildings, and will be in the future. However, I would hate to see Wellington reduced to a bunch of new towers, and Freedville as it is now is better than most of the city in terms of architecture. Some cheap towers would be terrible for the city.
 
The accusations regarding nimbyism and antidevelopment in this part of the city are dead wrong. People here live with development all the time. This effort is about promoting the idea of development of an appropriate scale for a specific area of the city. The Front and Bathurst proposal is out of character with the neighbourhood, and should it be built according to the existing proposal, it will open the door to ever greater high rise intensification in the west precinct of King-Spadina. Every subsequent proposal will push the boundaries and use the F-B building as a precedent. One need only look at the east side of King-Spadina where there is also technically a 30 metre height limit, yet nothing near thirty metres has been proposed in years. Every new building and subsequent proposal has been far taller than that. Essentially, this would be the fate of the west side of King-Spadina. Even the easing of height limits for Bathurst - resulting in some 50 metre high buildings along a major artery- has resulted in some developers wanting 50 metres for anywhere within the King-Spadina neighbourhood. Give an inch, and developers will try to take a mile.

It is worth remembering this type of development - should it come to pass - will put ever greater development pressure on the existing commercial warehouse buildings. Ever higher land values will push taxes up as those land valuations skyrocket. The owners will inevitably give up and sell, and then the battles will then be about the relative merits of facadectomies - should the developers deem the face of a building worth saving or reproducing.
 
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Update On Stop Minto Freed Development

Here are some new renderings just released via our twitter feed @StopMintoFreed and our website StopMintoFreedDevelopment.com that were created by the Wellington Place Neighbourhood Association (WPNA)and Niagara Neighbourhood Now (NNN) to better show the context of the development proposal.

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Problem: the project as per the rendering seems to want the slab cake and eat the point-tower too. The massing looks awkward, to say the least.

AoD
 
Oh how far we have gone compared to Context's first kick at the can a couple of years ago (see below). They had a 17 storey building corner height at Front/Bathurst tapering down all around. This initial work which was never more fully developed as far as I know sure makes Rudy Wallman/Minto/Freed look small time in terms of their clumsy approach to this site. Too bad Context didn't keep going with this one and make something out of this early massing work. Lots of beautiful terraces for some of those suites!

contextfrontbathurst.png
 
I think it's worth repeating that the proposed demolition of the Sherwin Williams building shows a complete disregard for the integrity and richness of the King West neighbourhood. Freed is throwing away a lot of good will with this proposal. But maybe he's done with King West after this one?
 
One rumour in the neighbourhood from one of my insider friends is that Freed has left this project because he recently spent alot of money in east Toronto. I guess this may be revealed at tomorrow night's Adam Vaughan meeting if it is indeed true.
 
The massing is really clumsy as is. It almost looks like a 'height bluff' to me, as a simple pulling-down of certain elements could easily result in a more graceful building. Maybe the strategy is to make the community feel like they've 'won' once they 'force' the developer to alter the proportions?
 
The community meeting was held tonight at City Hall. It was well-attended and the overwhelming majority of the crowd was clearly opposed to this proposal as is.

The question now is whether the developers intend to proceed with their existing proposal, or come back to the community with something more fitting with the neighbourhood.
 
SpadinaBus said:
One rumour in the neighbourhood from one of my insider friends is that Freed has left this project because he recently spent alot of money in east Toronto. I guess this may be revealed at tomorrow night's Adam Vaughan meeting if it is indeed true.
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Freed has apparently bought the large Sobeys/Acura site at Front and Sherbourne.
 
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