Middle Eastern politics is something that will get very nasty and polarizing. Trying to head that off. Now talking about overseas investors and their impact on Toronto is something I highly encourage.
Toronto Malibu Harbourfront Condo | ?m | 32s | Malibu Investments | P + S / IBI
TrickyRicky
Senior Member
I don't know about this project myself but it should not come as a surprise that there is significant foreign investment in real estate in Toronto. For example to German and Swiss investors used to sub 4% returns on investment valuations giving 6% seem like gold while that 6% sounds like rubbish to long time Toronto investors used to minimum returns of 7-8%. An extreme example is for instance South Korean investors who inflate the commercial real estate in Korea town. To a Korean businessman used to astronomical prices in Seoul prices 100%... 200% it doesn't matter higher than Toronto investors are willing to pay seems reasonable for the opportunity to by property in a stable city so close to the city centre on a map.
purespirits
New Member
I was thinking just that, but this just points out how volatile this issue is. I hope I did not ruffle any feathers I merely, pointed out a fact.
But again> thats all History so lets continue with Malibu... Btw I think its a very nice building so far and will add to the area.
3Dementia
Senior Member
Ed: it was just a very useful heads up from someone... and an enlightened one at that. Not worth worrying about on this forum. And definitely worth discussing... somewhere. Think of it as "partition" rather than us vs. them. Who gives a shit about a building if there's a bit of real, informed pov to be gleened?
Waterloo_Guy
Active Member
I certainly didn't intend to upset or insult anyone. I stand by what I said because I believe it, but I don't want anyone to feel insulted by it either. The mark of a mature forum is one where members can disagree without it causing a problem.
As for Malibu, it is exceeding my expectations now that the windows are going in.
As for Malibu, it is exceeding my expectations now that the windows are going in.
casaguy
Senior Member
I know we're trying to get this thread back on topic, but the above statement is still bothering me.
I think this has to take the prize for the most ignorant statement I have ever read on this board.
Sorry. Ok, now I feel better.
And yes, Malibu is turning into quite a beauty.
Although it is bordered to the north by the Gardiner, there is something different about this area south of the Gardiner. The lake is steps away, the CNE grounds, the bike path, the park across the street, the streetcar right at your door.
The psychological barriers of CityPlace just aren't the same here.
vultur
Active Member
As a long time investor, I take major issue with these kinds of rationalizations and believe that they will ultimately correct themselves.
Higher stabilized cap rates in Toronto relative to Germany are a function of the higher cost of debt. Real estate is and has always been a highly leveraged investment. For a German or Korean buyer to acquire property here on the basis that the return is higher is foolish in my opinion. A foreign buyer is effectively conveting his foreign currency to canadian dollars upon the purchase and should be compensated with the higher return associated with the local economic factors such as higher debt costs driven higher inflation expectations. I suspect even if the investment in financed entirely with foreign currency that the currency hedge costs would neutralize any relative higher yield and that would be counter intuitive as the foreign lender would then be looking to foreign collateral as security thus defeating the benefit of leverage.
Japanese investors stormed America in the 80s and brought down big chunks of the real estate market along with their own. The existence of foreign buyers, while certainly a boon to eager sellers looking to cash out, ultimately will be the undoing of the market in my opinion.
As far as Malibu, picture a completed project that is probably 25% owner occupied with the remainder being rented or even held vacant. Is that the kind of environment that a Toronto resident would choose to live in? That's the climate you have to look forward to down on Lakeshore (probably not so much in the Tip Top Building) due to the very heavy foreign ownership component.
purespirits
New Member
I believe his comment irked many people. Myself included.
Btw, I wish I had purchased in CASA! not that im not happy with my purchase (purespirits)...
Well, I for one always expected it would have windows, but yes, it is turning out to be better than the renderings, and that's a rare feat.
42
Waterloo_Guy
Active Member
Well, you're wrong. I'm not attacking any place, just stating a fact: there are things that set Israel apart from everything that surrounds it.
It is possible to identify difference without passing judgment on either side. You might lack the maturity to realize this, but recognizing differences while maintaining judgmental neutrality is a sign of maturity.
casaguy
Senior Member
I didn't say you were attacking anyone.
I don't have a problem if you have a difference of opinion... I welcome it. I really do.
But what you stated was not a matter of opinion. You stated an incorrect fact and tried to justify it by suggesting many other people believe the same thing.
That is still just ignorant. If you rely on CNN as your sole source of truth (or any TV news), there's not much I can do.
I guess I am just immature.
And this immature guy hopes to hell you have looked at a map of the world since you made your initial comment.
Or at least befriended people from Israel, Jordan and Syria who can tell you what the real story is.
And by the way, I'm not sure what circle of friends you're travelling in, but I have never heard anyone EVER say anything close to what you said. There may be much animosity towards Israel, but that does not in any way pull them out of the middle east or make them any less middle eastern than palestinians, lebanese, egyptians, etc...
Waterloo_Guy
Active Member
Grow up. Read my posts: I did NOT justify my claim by suggesting other people believe the same thing. You made that up.
You're comment about CNN is also something you made up. Now we're at two.
You're comment about looking at a map makes no sense, but hopefully it will impress someone into thinking you have intelligent things to say.
I shouldn't have to respond to such stupid posts. I simply made a nonjudgmental statement of fact. If you or others disagree, that's OK. You can respond by explaining that you think I'm wrong. But if you just want to take a piss at me, don't respond at all.
casaguy
Senior Member
Then I must be dreaming. (or refering to someone else's post on another thread)
(Can previous posts be deleted?)
Either way you win. It's yours. I'm movin' on.
Israel is an island! Rejoice!
(Can previous posts be deleted?)
Either way you win. It's yours. I'm movin' on.
Israel is an island! Rejoice!
urbandreamer
recession proof
Israel was a person if I recall correctly
I know a nice guy named Israel (and he's a catholic.)
I slept with a girl from Israel.
I remember there's a big great wall that causes much wailing amongst the locals and cnn types.
I know that tel aviv is really cool and one day I shall visit or maybe live there.
I know many jerks from Israel
I know that Concordia U has hotties from both sides of the "fence" and they're both adorable
Now that I've stated my views, I'm towing Israel into Lake Ontario where it shall become an island--the new Buffalo?
Malibu was indeed marketed to Israeli's--it was in many Israeli media if I recall. Just like Cityplace is aggresively marketed in Chinese Media, DNA was aimed at the Indo-Canadian crowd, etc. The reality is Toronto--and Canada--is not one nation, but as the cbc likes to say: a nation of peoples. Divided says I but then I'm too honest for most folks.
But, Malibu is under construction, I will never live there, and yet I still get to look at it, criticize it and have a blast while doing so. Now that is what I love about Canada! (well I do live in canada but the rest is true....)
I know a nice guy named Israel (and he's a catholic.)
I slept with a girl from Israel.
I remember there's a big great wall that causes much wailing amongst the locals and cnn types.
I know that tel aviv is really cool and one day I shall visit or maybe live there.
I know many jerks from Israel
I know that Concordia U has hotties from both sides of the "fence" and they're both adorable
Now that I've stated my views, I'm towing Israel into Lake Ontario where it shall become an island--the new Buffalo?
Malibu was indeed marketed to Israeli's--it was in many Israeli media if I recall. Just like Cityplace is aggresively marketed in Chinese Media, DNA was aimed at the Indo-Canadian crowd, etc. The reality is Toronto--and Canada--is not one nation, but as the cbc likes to say: a nation of peoples. Divided says I but then I'm too honest for most folks.
But, Malibu is under construction, I will never live there, and yet I still get to look at it, criticize it and have a blast while doing so. Now that is what I love about Canada! (well I do live in canada but the rest is true....)
casaguy
Senior Member
Ok, Waterloo Guy... You're right... I was thinking of 3D's above post from yesterday as something you used to justify your ignorant comment.
My apologies.