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Blue Jays, UFC, Concerts, Conventions, etc...
Toronto Lower Don Lands Redevelopment | ?m | ?s | Waterfront Toronto
Blue Jays, UFC, Concerts, Conventions, etc...
GenerationW
Senior Member
Based on the replies above, the answer is obviously not many at all.
Since you can't even name one legitimate prospective owner, you must be living under two rocks.Im sorry my man.. but with those comments, you must be living under a rock.
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Superstar
Whats the point..when as of yet the NFL has not proposed any expansion into Canada..the day will come and believe me
there will be someone to take on an NFL franchise team in Toronto.
GenerationW
Senior Member
Right! 34 years of lobbying, and the NFL has pissed on Toronto every time, but I should believe you.
And why I should believe you? You haven't come up with one good point yet.
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Superstar
Hahaha..some people need to get their head checked if they think that when that day finally arrives of Toronto landing an NFL team...we will just say, no thanks...
Bogtrotter
Senior Member
I'd rather see Toronto get a Premier league soccer team- that would be more world class than getting an NFL team.
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Superstar
Well thats not going to happen unless England invades Canada and takes it back..lol
Bogtrotter
Senior Member
Yeh- too true. I like the NFL but I'm not convinced it could work here. Beyond the initial hoopla the NBA and jays are ultimately not great successes- marginal teams in a marginal sports market. Good luck filling a 70-80K stadium.
Big Daddy
Senior Member
You're absolutely right, it is very unlikely to succeed here largely because in Canada and specifically here in Toronto, there is only one sport - hockey. You can barely find any news about basketball or any other sport in the "sports" section of the Star, even when the Raptors do well. There is a single mindedness about "sports" in this country and even the NFL would be greatly challenged to overcome it. Turn on the TV and look for a "sport" channel - I'll bet their talking about hockey. You can't escape it - very frustrating if you like another sport. The hilarity of it is, that in Toronto WE NEVER WIN and still it's the top story.
NFL hasn't got a hope in Toronto just from a factor alone, making the financing all the more impossible.
TOareaFan
Superstar
It is hard to imagine how it would not work on an operational basis.
Tying a couple of sites together tells us this. The only team in the NFL that lost money (operationally) in 2008 was the Oakland Raiders (source: http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/30/football-values-09_NFL-Team-Valuations_Value.html). At an operating loss of $5 mil that is, essentially break even. They did this while drawing average crowds of 57,000 (91% of capacity) in an old, converted baseball, stadium in a city with poor economics. (source: http://espn.go.com/nfl/attendance/_/year/2008).
Toronto has for all sports amongst the highest ticket prices in NA and would be catering to one of the larger business communities and playing in a new stadium with efficient revenue generators.
The question really is, how much money would a team in Toronto make and is that enough to justify the necessary investment in a team and stadium.
EDIT: I meant to also say that one thing that may hold this back is our "atitude" with regards to stadium financing. For whatever reason (and I am not commenting on it right or wrong) we are far less open in Canada to public funds being used for stadiums than they are in the States. So the investment for a potential owner in Canada is much higher than it would be in Canada. Even that great free enterpriser Jerry Jones in a free market state like Texas had over $300 million of public funds injected into the stadium. Whether we believe in this sort of public injection of funds or not, it has to be considered a factor in the City/Region being able to attract an NFL team.....earlier I noted that the Minnesota Vikings may be in play because they are looking for a new stadium. The debate there centres around how much public funding is appropriate and not so much (as it would here) on whether any public funding is appropriate.
Tying a couple of sites together tells us this. The only team in the NFL that lost money (operationally) in 2008 was the Oakland Raiders (source: http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/30/football-values-09_NFL-Team-Valuations_Value.html). At an operating loss of $5 mil that is, essentially break even. They did this while drawing average crowds of 57,000 (91% of capacity) in an old, converted baseball, stadium in a city with poor economics. (source: http://espn.go.com/nfl/attendance/_/year/2008).
Toronto has for all sports amongst the highest ticket prices in NA and would be catering to one of the larger business communities and playing in a new stadium with efficient revenue generators.
The question really is, how much money would a team in Toronto make and is that enough to justify the necessary investment in a team and stadium.
EDIT: I meant to also say that one thing that may hold this back is our "atitude" with regards to stadium financing. For whatever reason (and I am not commenting on it right or wrong) we are far less open in Canada to public funds being used for stadiums than they are in the States. So the investment for a potential owner in Canada is much higher than it would be in Canada. Even that great free enterpriser Jerry Jones in a free market state like Texas had over $300 million of public funds injected into the stadium. Whether we believe in this sort of public injection of funds or not, it has to be considered a factor in the City/Region being able to attract an NFL team.....earlier I noted that the Minnesota Vikings may be in play because they are looking for a new stadium. The debate there centres around how much public funding is appropriate and not so much (as it would here) on whether any public funding is appropriate.
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sixrings
Senior Member
one of the reasons the NFL does well is because there are only 16 games in a season... This translates to more people being able to follow the entire season. Every game becomes an event because they mean more... The NBA and the NHL dont get interesting till after the playoffs. People will watch a game here or there but not everygame... Baseball is getting killed because theres 162 games a year.. WHo in this world has the kind of time to follow a team with that type of schedule.. Sports also need to compete with other forms of entertainment... movies, tv, clubs,,, Toronto has many options to take awqay a sports fan.. But with only 8 home games a year it would be easy to follow and easy to fill the stadium..
W. K. Lis
Superstar
How would one get to a Portlands Stadium? Automobile? Subway? Streetcar? Oh, sorry, no streetcar because of Rob Ford's phobia, so that leaves either a subway or the automobile. If automobile, that means it will have empty asphalt deserts for most of the year. If subway, will private corporations will pay for it, and why?
Filip
Senior Member
JMSRead
Active Member
Hello. I love reading this forum, but haven't posted before, as I felt I didn't have enough knowledge about urban issues to contribute. I'm compelled to comment here though, because I am pretty knowledgeable about sports and the business of sports.
First of all - yes, Toronto is hockey crazy. The Maple Leafs are one of the few teams in North American sports that will sell out regardless of on ice success. They're in a category with the Yankees, Red Sox, Lakers, Canadiens and maybe a handful of others.
However, the notion that the Raptors and Blue Jays haven't been successful beyond initial hoopla is wrong. Like nearly every team in North America - the interest and attendance in those franchises directly corresponds to their play on the field/court. Currently, the Blue Jays have a good team - but they have not made the playoffs in 18 seasons. The Raptors have only passed the first round once in 16 years.
So to judge the interest levels in these two teams now is to look at them through prisms of almost unprecedented lack of success. When the Blue Jays were making the playoffs, the city was insanely supportive. The Raptors really only had one season of 'success' (the year they lost in the second round to Philadelphia) and the city was definitely abuzz.
So lets not confuse a malaise because of lack of success with a lack of potential. Collectively, Toronto's sports teams might be the worst performing of any major city in North America this past decade.
Lets not forget that Toronto is about the 4th largest sports market in North America. Cities of similar sizes in the U.S. support four major franchises with ease (economically speaking, the CFL and MLS are not at the same level as MLB, NHL, NBA and NFL).
I really don't believe there is much reason to think that Toronto wouldn't eat up the NFL. (And yeah, like most teams, if they don't make the playoffs in 18 years, there will be an erosion of interest).
Now - as to whether the portlands is a good location for a stadium - that's another story...
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Superstar
Hahaha..What a bunch of rubbish