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In my opinion, it might make more sense to renovate the Rogers Centre for NFL football (if that is possible) and build a new baseball stadium for the Blue Jays.

I say this because:

1) The Blue Jays and an NFL team could not share a stadium in the long term. NFL would require something like 70k seats, and that simply wouldn't be acceptable for baseball. So if the NFL comes, we're either going to need a new NFL stadium with the Jays playing in the Rogers centre or a new MLB stadium with the NFLers playing in a renovated Rogers Centre.
2) An outdoor, rustic baseball stadium would be far cheaper to build than a new NFL stadium (the Twins gorgeous new park cost $500mil). I suspect that the cost of a new baseball stadium AND the of renovating to dome to be NFL compatible might be less than the price of one state of the art, new NFL stadium.
3) Since the Rogers Centre is an 'all purpose facility' it makes more sense for its tenant to be a team that only plays 8 games compared to the Blue Jays' 81. It would open up more dates for concerts etc. As well, a baseball only park would be more justifiable than an NFL only park, because there are 81 home dates a year. It wouldn't just sit there empty almost all the time.

Of course, that whole argument is moot if the Rogers Centre is not able to be renovated for the NFL. Having said that, Phil Lind of Rogers said on Prime Time Sports a few months ago that he believed the Rogers Centre could be renovated for NFL by lowering the playing field - for what it's worth.
 
Bogtrotter said:
Yeh- too true. I like the NFL but I'm not convinced it could work here. Beyond the initial hoopla the NBA and jays are ultimately not great successes- marginal teams in a marginal sports market. Good luck filling a 70-80K stadium.
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Not sure where this is coming from. The Raptors have been top 10 in attendance and value for the past 10 years (not this year for attendance however). The Jays haven't been a good team in years, but have periods of immense attendance success when they were actually good.

Toronto loves big sports events. UFC just drew the most fans in its history, and sold out in a matter of minutes. The NFL only plays 8 home games and could far and away sell out all those games easily in Toronto. The demographics of this city are changing, and sports like basketball and football are only gaining popularity.
 
JMSRead said:
In my opinion, it might make more sense to renovate the Rogers Centre for NFL football (if that is possible) and build a new baseball stadium for the Blue Jays.

I say this because:

1) The Blue Jays and an NFL team could not share a stadium in the long term. NFL would require something like 70k seats, and that simply wouldn't be acceptable for baseball. So if the NFL comes, we're either going to need a new NFL stadium with the Jays playing in the Rogers centre or a new MLB stadium with the NFLers playing in a renovated Rogers Centre.
2) An outdoor, rustic baseball stadium would be far cheaper to build than a new NFL stadium (the Twins gorgeous new park cost $500mil). I suspect that the cost of a new baseball stadium AND the of renovating to dome to be NFL compatible might be less than the price of one state of the art, new NFL stadium.
3) Since the Rogers Centre is an 'all purpose facility' it makes more sense for its tenant to be a team that only plays 8 games compared to the Blue Jays' 81. It would open up more dates for concerts etc. As well, a baseball only park would be more justifiable than an NFL only park, because there are 81 home dates a year. It wouldn't just sit there empty almost all the time.

Of course, that whole argument is moot if the Rogers Centre is not able to be renovated for the NFL. Having said that, Phil Lind of Rogers said on Prime Time Sports a few months ago that he believed the Rogers Centre could be renovated for NFL by lowering the playing field - for what it's worth.
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Makes sense but I don't think the NFL would allow that.
 
Bogtrotter said:
I'd rather see Toronto get a Premier league soccer team- that would be more world class than getting an NFL team.
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Bogtrotter said:
Yeh- too true. I like the NFL but I'm not convinced it could work here. Beyond the initial hoopla the NBA and jays are ultimately not great successes- marginal teams in a marginal sports market. Good luck filling a 70-80K stadium.
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These two quotes tell me everything about your knowledge of the business of sport.
First, the NFL is the biggest sport league in terms of economics in the world. By a lot. It's roughly 2-3 times more valuable than the Premier League. So if you're talking about "world class" you can't get more "world class" than the NFL.
Second, hypothetically if you wanted a Premier League team you'd be talking about upwards of 30+ home games (League and Cups). The average EPL stadium holds 35,000 people. So, in your opinion then Toronto could fill a 35,000 seats stadium 30+ times, but couldn't possibly fill a 70-80k stadium between 8-11 times (by the way the league average is only 66k). Do I need to do the math for you to show how absurd that is?
Finally, before this season, the Raptors were annually in the top 10-15 NBA clubs in terms of attenance, while the Blue Jays are one of the only teams in MLB that announce real attendance figures (and still despite this are in the middle of the league in attendance). In comparison to most teams the Jays do very well at the gate, and if you don't believe me then I'd suggest you check out the pictures here: http://twitter.com/#!/search?q=#EmptyStadiumSeries
 
Bogtrotter said:
Yeh- too true. I like the NFL but I'm not convinced it could work here. Beyond the initial hoopla the NBA and jays are ultimately not great successes- marginal teams in a marginal sports market. Good luck filling a 70-80K stadium.
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um... what?

The Jays were the first team in baseball HISTORY to draw over 4,000,000 fans in a single season (and did it twice). Only a handful of teams have ever done it since (giants like the Yankees). The Jays get tremendous TV ratings and are a HUGE money maker for Rogers. Attendance is not a problem at all... considering the team hasn't made the playoffs in nearly 20 years its a testament to the fan base that they get the support they do. Put a winning team out on the field (which hopefully they are on their way to now), and they will easily be top-10 in attendance.

The Raptors have always been in the top half of the league in attendance even during the down years. And again, considering they have only made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs once in their existence, that is quite a feat. Put a winning team on the court and again they are easily a top-5 attendance team in the league (as they were in the Vince Carter days).

To sum it up, your post is nonsense and entirely incorrect. If Toronto got an NFL team every game would sell out EASILY. That point is not even debatable.
 
ebo said:
Not sure where this is coming from. The Raptors have been top 10 in attendance and value for the past 10 years
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2010 - 2011 Raptors 19th in league attendance
2009 - 2010 14th
2008 - 2009 10th
2007 - 2008 9th
2006 - 2007 13th
2005 - 2006 17th
2004 - 2005 16th
2003 - 2004 8th
2002 - 2003 10th
2001 - 2002 4th

So, 5 times in the past ten years the Raptors have been in the top ten.......it doesn't matter much ( since the range of team attendances is fairly small year to year and it is not a gate driven league) but the notion that the Raptors are a top drawing NBA team is a bit of a myth.....they are not bad (and likely a top 5 team in revenue terms) but not great either.
 
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In case anyone cares, similar numbers for Jays:
2010 - 26th
2009 - 22nd
2008 - 18th
2007 - 18th
2006 - 18th
2005 - 23rd
2004 - 24th
2003 - 23rd
2002 - 25th
2001 - 23rd
 
Someone has to pay for this thing, right? So I asked if anyone had the cash to do so. You made some vacant remark about living under a rock. One could only conclude that you are having issues.

This thing is a fantasy.
 
JMSRead said:
In my opinion, it might make more sense to renovate the Rogers Centre for NFL football (if that is possible) and build a new baseball stadium for the Blue Jays.

I say this because:

1) The Blue Jays and an NFL team could not share a stadium in the long term. NFL would require something like 70k seats, and that simply wouldn't be acceptable for baseball. So if the NFL comes, we're either going to need a new NFL stadium with the Jays playing in the Rogers centre or a new MLB stadium with the NFLers playing in a renovated Rogers Centre.
2) An outdoor, rustic baseball stadium would be far cheaper to build than a new NFL stadium (the Twins gorgeous new park cost $500mil). I suspect that the cost of a new baseball stadium AND the of renovating to dome to be NFL compatible might be less than the price of one state of the art, new NFL stadium.
3) Since the Rogers Centre is an 'all purpose facility' it makes more sense for its tenant to be a team that only plays 8 games compared to the Blue Jays' 81. It would open up more dates for concerts etc. As well, a baseball only park would be more justifiable than an NFL only park, because there are 81 home dates a year. It wouldn't just sit there empty almost all the time.

Of course, that whole argument is moot if the Rogers Centre is not able to be renovated for the NFL. Having said that, Phil Lind of Rogers said on Prime Time Sports a few months ago that he believed the Rogers Centre could be renovated for NFL by lowering the playing field - for what it's worth.
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Did he mention how manyu extra seats he thought they could get by lowering the playing field? How much more seats could they get for removing the hotel and the restauarnts? if they could get an extra 15000 that would make it 70000 capacity... more then enough.
 
JMSRead said:
In my opinion, it might make more sense to renovate the Rogers Centre for NFL football (if that is possible) and build a new baseball stadium for the Blue Jays.
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What about the Argos? The CFL field is much larger than the NFL version -- any expansion of seating within the building envelope would likely encroach. Would the Argos have to move to a new facility as well? If so, such a scheme gets more and more expensive.

That said, there is nothing I would like more than the Jays at a proper, purpose-built baseball park, something with character.
 
TOareaFan said:
2010 - 2011 Raptors 19th in league attendance
2009 - 2010 14th
2008 - 2009 10th
2007 - 2008 9th
2006 - 2007 13th
2005 - 2006 17th
2004 - 2005 16th
2003 - 2004 8th
2002 - 2003 10th
2001 - 2002 4th

So, 5 times in the past ten years the Raptors have been in the top ten.......it doesn't matter much ( since the range of team attendances is fairly small year to year and it is not a gate driven league) but the notion that the Raptors are a top drawing NBA team is a bit of a myth.....they are not bad (and likely a top 5 team in revenue terms) but not great either.
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Not great? The ONE time they were just a 2nd round playoff team, they were 4th in the entire league! Clearly the fan support is there if and when they choose to be a winning team. I would say the Raptors fan support IS great.
 
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