Towered
Senior Member
I'll be there. For photos, maybe I'll even try the old "I'm the media representative for Urban Toronto!" ploy 
Toronto Kipling Station Transit Hub | ?m | 2s | Metrolinx | SAI
- Thread starter drum118
- Start date
spaced
Active Member
It's too bad they couldn't extend the subway closer to the 427 for this. I guess in another 20 years they'll move it another 4 miles, then in 40, another 4....etc., etc. Real efficient. Well, <shrug>, it's still good news.
299 bloor call control.
Senior Member
Don't mess with the tiles... Islington has the unique tile pattern for being a former terminus station and I would hate to see that messed up.
Mess with the concourse level and the ground level all you want, but clean, polish, and enhance the the platform level, but don't change it out right.
I'll probably be at the meeting tonight as well... catch up with my old TTC brethren....
Mess with the concourse level and the ground level all you want, but clean, polish, and enhance the the platform level, but don't change it out right.
I'll probably be at the meeting tonight as well... catch up with my old TTC brethren....
ShonTron
Moderator
Member Bio
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2007
- Messages
- 12,396
- Reaction score
- 9,045
- Location
- Ward 13 - Toronto Centre
I will probably be there. I'll wear my Islington subway button.
CDL.TO
Moderator
Be sure to snap lots of pics. If a SNC person is there you should ask how big their building is going to be.
ShonTron
Moderator
Member Bio
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2007
- Messages
- 12,396
- Reaction score
- 9,045
- Location
- Ward 13 - Toronto Centre
I got lots of pictures of the display boards and will post them hopefully tomorrow.
SNC Lavalin has not yet submitted a proposal to city planning, though planning believes it will be a big, but bulky building, mostly where the Legion now sits. It will have a direct connection to the subway station as will an unspecified "phase 2" development. With those two and Clarica, would create a mini-PATH (E-PATH?).
Kipling's design is interesting. The drop-off/pick-up "carousel" would be demolished as part of the plans, which I didn't know.
The room was crowded, and I don't think the city/GO/MT expected the crowd it got. However, except for particular concerns (ie condo dwellers by Kipling dealing with idling buses on layover), there were few off-the-wall NIMBY remarks. I'd say the crowd was either happy enough with the plans or resigned to them.
When I post the pics, it will explain the plans better.
SNC Lavalin has not yet submitted a proposal to city planning, though planning believes it will be a big, but bulky building, mostly where the Legion now sits. It will have a direct connection to the subway station as will an unspecified "phase 2" development. With those two and Clarica, would create a mini-PATH (E-PATH?).
Kipling's design is interesting. The drop-off/pick-up "carousel" would be demolished as part of the plans, which I didn't know.
The room was crowded, and I don't think the city/GO/MT expected the crowd it got. However, except for particular concerns (ie condo dwellers by Kipling dealing with idling buses on layover), there were few off-the-wall NIMBY remarks. I'd say the crowd was either happy enough with the plans or resigned to them.
When I post the pics, it will explain the plans better.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Some renderings are to be had here:
http://www.toronto.ca/ttc/pdf/stn_mod_kiplingislington_factsheet.pdf
AoD
http://www.toronto.ca/ttc/pdf/stn_mod_kiplingislington_factsheet.pdf
AoD
A number of posts regarding the Islington station redevelopment have been moved over to the Islington station thread.
42
42
unimaginative2
Senior Member
This new terminal may be obsolete in just a few years if the GTTA implements a real fare zone system.
I'd like to see it be made obsolete by a subway extension.
42
42
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Here is what I believe is last night's presentation:
http://www.toronto.ca/ttc/pdf/stn_mod_kiplingislington_display_panels.pdf
AoD
http://www.toronto.ca/ttc/pdf/stn_mod_kiplingislington_display_panels.pdf
AoD
drum118
Superstar
This was not made known at Wed meeting for Kipling.
MEETING DATE: November 14, 2007
SUBJECT: KIPLING STATION REDEVELOPMENT
HANDOVER TO GO TRANSIT
RECOMMENDATION
It is recommended that the Commission:
1. Authorize TTC staff to finalize the handover of the design
and construction responsibilities for the Terminal, the Re-aligned
Facilities and the Parking Lots at Kipling Station to GO Transit as of
November 15, 2007 to the satisfaction of the Chief General Manager, in
accordance with the principles set out herein.
2. Rescind its jurisdictional interest in the portion of the
City's owned land located within Terminal lands, as shown on Attachment 1.
3. Authorize TTC staff to execute a Memorandum of Understanding
(MOU) with GO Transit, City of Toronto and Mississauga Transit
regarding the roles and responsibilities of the various parties
relating to the design, construction and funding of the Kipling
Station Redevelopment on terms and conditions agreeable to the Chief
General Manager.
4. Forward this report to the City of Toronto for concurrence
with this course of action.
FUNDING
Funds for the Kipling Station Improvements project have been included
in TTC 2007-2011 Capital Program under Project 3.9 Building and
Structures, as set out on pages 992a1-a3 and 992b1 of the Improvement
Category, as approved by the City Council on March 7, 2007.
BACKGROUND
The Kipling Station redevelopment is a joint TTC, City, GO Transit
and Mississauga Transit initiative with the following objectives:
· Redevelopment of Kipling Station as a major transit hub by
constructing a new 14 bay inter-regional bus terminal for the joint
use of Mississauga Transit and GO Transit;
· Relocation of Mississauga Transit bus operations from
Islington Station to the new Kipling Station inter-regional bus
terminal will free up certain Bloor\Islington lands for development.
TTC bus operations at Islington Station will be moved to a new
TTC-only bus terminal under a separate TTC project; and
· Replacement of commuter parking spaces with the
reconfiguration of the existing lots and the construction of new
commuter parking lots at Aukland Road, 915 Kipling and 2 Fieldway.
To date, TTC has been responsible for project management, design and
construction for the full scope of the Kipling Station Redevelopment
project. The design, which is now at the 60% completion milestone, has
been developed in consultation with GO Transit and Mississauga
Transit. The Kipling Station redevelopment cost at the 10% design
stage was estimated to be $35.5 million. The cost estimate at the 30%
milestone is for $37.6 million. The cost increase is due to refinement
of the design from 10% to 30%.
DISCUSSION
Following various meetings and discussions among TTC, MTO, GO
Transit, Mississauga Transit and the City staff regarding cost sharing
and project funding arrangements, MTO has confirmed project funding in
the amount of $30 million and Mississauga Transit has committed to
fund $5.5 million. This arrangement was based on the 10% milestone
estimate of $35.5 million.
At a joint meeting attended by MTO, TTC, GO Transit and Mississauga
Transit held on July 24, 2007, the Province announced that, as a
condition of provincial funding, the majority of the project should be
handed over to GO Transit. Provincial funding will flow through GO
Transit, which will assume responsibility for the majority of the
project from the TTC at a hand over date which is currently set for
November 15, 2007. Furthermore, MTO requires that the City agree to
convey assets at Kipling Station to GO Transit with a value equal to
the provincial funding, as part of the funding arrangement.
In response to the provincial position, TTC and City staff have
developed a draft Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) to establish a
framework for agreement amongst the City, TTC, GO Transit and
Mississauga Transit. The status of the MOU is discussed later in this
report.
The MOU divides the current Kipling Station design and construction
of the project into four areas, as illustrated in the attachments and
as described below:
· Terminal – which is the new inter-regional bus terminal
(Attachment 1);
· Re-Aligned Facilities – which includes the re-alignment of
facilities in proximity to the Terminal, including a west passenger
pick-up and drop off (PPUDO), north and west entrances and the north,
west and Subway Crescent parking lots (Attachment 1);
· Parking Lots – which includes new parking lots at 915
Kipling Avenue and on the east and west sides of Aukland Road north of
Dundas Street West (Attachment 2); (Consideration is also being given
to extending the lot easterly from 915 Kipling Avenue on the hydro
corridor lands currently leased to an automotive sales facility); and
· East Entrance and East PPUDO – which includes a new east
entrance and passenger pick-up and drop-off facility (Attachment 3).
Key principles agreed and are being discussed in the MOU are
summarized below:
Design and Construction
· GO Transit will takeover responsibility for project
management, design and construction from the TTC for the Terminal,
Re-Aligned Facilities and Parking Lots as of November 15, 2007. This
has been agreed in principle and, although construction activities are
not scheduled to start until mid 2008, a Handover Plan in the form of
a working procedure, has been prepared by TTC to facilitate the
transfer of the design deliverables and documentation to GO Transit.
This Handover Plan will be agreed to by both parties prior to the
transfer of design responsibilities. The handover should be approved
in order that progression to the 100% design stage is not delayed and
the transaction with SNC Lavalin is not impacted. Accordingly, this
report recommends approval of the handover. It should be noted that
the MOU cannot be signed until approval has been provided by all
parties, including the City of Toronto. It is expected that this
matter will be before Council in January 2008. If the MOU is not
approved by all parties, the responsibility for implementation will
have to be transferred back to the TTC which could result in delays.
This risk will be managed by the TTC in cooperation with GO Transit to
ensure that the design continues in accordance with the project schedule.
· TTC will retain responsibility (i.e. project management,
design and construction) for the East Entrance and East PPUDO and it
is projected that the construction will commence in spring 2008.
Real Estate
· GO Transit will own and operate the Terminal, which will be
used primarily by Mississauga Transit, GO Transit and provide access
routes for TTC buses to the existing TTC terminal. The Terminal is
located on lands partially owned by the City and partially owned by
Hydro One. The City owned land forms part of an existing TTC parking
lot and an area which forms the easterly portion of Subway Crescent.
This area will be stopped up and closed, and subsequently be conveyed
to GO Transit. The proposed closing date in the MOU for the City
lands, within the boundaries of the Terminal, is June 30, 2008 as the
process to close Subway Crescent is expected to be complete by that
date. City staff will be reporting to City Council on this matter in
due course.
· GO Transit will arrange directly with Hydro One a purchase
or lease of the Hydro One lands to be occupied by the Terminal and
provide an access route for TTC buses destined to the existing TTC bus
terminal. Accordingly, this report recommends that the TTC agree to
rescind its jurisdiction over that portion of the City lands which
form part of the existing parking lot.
· In order to satisfy the provincial funding requirement that
GO Transit secure assets equal to the value of the provincial funding,
the prospect of GO Transit acquiring certain City owned properties
within the Kipling Station lands, which are used by the TTC, is being
discussed but has not yet been resolved in the MOU. Any lands conveyed
to GO Transit would be immediately leased back to the City on a
perpetual basis for a nominal net rent with the City/TTC being
responsible for all operating costs and taxes. A further report will
be submitted on this matter when the City and TTC staff have fully
negotiated the MOU with GO Transit.
· Operation and maintenance agreements between the three
transit agencies will be finalized prior to the opening of the Terminal.
Financial
The financial elements of the MOU are still being discussed. The
position which City/TTC staff have taken are:
· GO Transit will secure the provincial project funding and
utilize the funding to reimburse the TTC for costs it has incurred to
the date of the handover and to fund the ongoing costs of the project;
· The project funding from Mississauga Transit ($5.5 million)
will be provided to the project and will be applied towards design and
construction of the East Entrance and East PPUDO. The TTC will provide
a full accounting with GO Transit being responsible for any costs in
excess of the $5.5 million or any excess funds being provided to GO
Transit for application to the overall Kipling Redevelopment project;
· GO Transit will be responsible to secure the required
budget for Kipling Station with the exception of the $5.5 million
provided by Mississauga Transit and will be responsible for all cost
overruns;
· GO Transit acknowledges that the TTC and the City have
entered into an agreement with SNC-Lavalin, which includes liquidated
damages after June 30, 2011. If the Kipling Station Redevelopment
project is not complete in the time required to relocate Mississauga
Transit from Islington Station, GO Transit will indemnify TTC and the
City for any losses associated with GO Transit assuming responsibility
for the design and construction of the Terminal, Re-aligned Facilities
and Parking Lots.
Once the financial details of the MOU are fully negotiated, a further
report will be submitted to the Commission.
JUSTIFICATION
Handover of the majority of the responsibility for the design and
construction of the project to GO Transit is a provincial funding
requirement and is acceptable to City/TTC staff. Rescinding the TTC
jurisdiction over the portion of the existing parking lot, to be
incorporated into the Terminal, enables City staff to move forward
with the process to declare the land surplus for conveyance to GO Transit.
October 23, 2007
22-11-5
Attachments: 1 – Lands to be Jurisdictionally Rescinded/East Entrance
and East PPUDO
2 – Terminal Lands and Re-Aligned Facilities
3 – Parking Lots
P:\Property Development\Commission & COTW\Commission Reports\Draft
Reports\CR KIPLING STATION REDEVELOPMENT HANDOVER TO GO TRANSIT - NOV
14 2007.doc
MEETING DATE: November 14, 2007
SUBJECT: KIPLING STATION REDEVELOPMENT
HANDOVER TO GO TRANSIT
RECOMMENDATION
It is recommended that the Commission:
1. Authorize TTC staff to finalize the handover of the design
and construction responsibilities for the Terminal, the Re-aligned
Facilities and the Parking Lots at Kipling Station to GO Transit as of
November 15, 2007 to the satisfaction of the Chief General Manager, in
accordance with the principles set out herein.
2. Rescind its jurisdictional interest in the portion of the
City's owned land located within Terminal lands, as shown on Attachment 1.
3. Authorize TTC staff to execute a Memorandum of Understanding
(MOU) with GO Transit, City of Toronto and Mississauga Transit
regarding the roles and responsibilities of the various parties
relating to the design, construction and funding of the Kipling
Station Redevelopment on terms and conditions agreeable to the Chief
General Manager.
4. Forward this report to the City of Toronto for concurrence
with this course of action.
FUNDING
Funds for the Kipling Station Improvements project have been included
in TTC 2007-2011 Capital Program under Project 3.9 Building and
Structures, as set out on pages 992a1-a3 and 992b1 of the Improvement
Category, as approved by the City Council on March 7, 2007.
BACKGROUND
The Kipling Station redevelopment is a joint TTC, City, GO Transit
and Mississauga Transit initiative with the following objectives:
· Redevelopment of Kipling Station as a major transit hub by
constructing a new 14 bay inter-regional bus terminal for the joint
use of Mississauga Transit and GO Transit;
· Relocation of Mississauga Transit bus operations from
Islington Station to the new Kipling Station inter-regional bus
terminal will free up certain Bloor\Islington lands for development.
TTC bus operations at Islington Station will be moved to a new
TTC-only bus terminal under a separate TTC project; and
· Replacement of commuter parking spaces with the
reconfiguration of the existing lots and the construction of new
commuter parking lots at Aukland Road, 915 Kipling and 2 Fieldway.
To date, TTC has been responsible for project management, design and
construction for the full scope of the Kipling Station Redevelopment
project. The design, which is now at the 60% completion milestone, has
been developed in consultation with GO Transit and Mississauga
Transit. The Kipling Station redevelopment cost at the 10% design
stage was estimated to be $35.5 million. The cost estimate at the 30%
milestone is for $37.6 million. The cost increase is due to refinement
of the design from 10% to 30%.
DISCUSSION
Following various meetings and discussions among TTC, MTO, GO
Transit, Mississauga Transit and the City staff regarding cost sharing
and project funding arrangements, MTO has confirmed project funding in
the amount of $30 million and Mississauga Transit has committed to
fund $5.5 million. This arrangement was based on the 10% milestone
estimate of $35.5 million.
At a joint meeting attended by MTO, TTC, GO Transit and Mississauga
Transit held on July 24, 2007, the Province announced that, as a
condition of provincial funding, the majority of the project should be
handed over to GO Transit. Provincial funding will flow through GO
Transit, which will assume responsibility for the majority of the
project from the TTC at a hand over date which is currently set for
November 15, 2007. Furthermore, MTO requires that the City agree to
convey assets at Kipling Station to GO Transit with a value equal to
the provincial funding, as part of the funding arrangement.
In response to the provincial position, TTC and City staff have
developed a draft Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) to establish a
framework for agreement amongst the City, TTC, GO Transit and
Mississauga Transit. The status of the MOU is discussed later in this
report.
The MOU divides the current Kipling Station design and construction
of the project into four areas, as illustrated in the attachments and
as described below:
· Terminal – which is the new inter-regional bus terminal
(Attachment 1);
· Re-Aligned Facilities – which includes the re-alignment of
facilities in proximity to the Terminal, including a west passenger
pick-up and drop off (PPUDO), north and west entrances and the north,
west and Subway Crescent parking lots (Attachment 1);
· Parking Lots – which includes new parking lots at 915
Kipling Avenue and on the east and west sides of Aukland Road north of
Dundas Street West (Attachment 2); (Consideration is also being given
to extending the lot easterly from 915 Kipling Avenue on the hydro
corridor lands currently leased to an automotive sales facility); and
· East Entrance and East PPUDO – which includes a new east
entrance and passenger pick-up and drop-off facility (Attachment 3).
Key principles agreed and are being discussed in the MOU are
summarized below:
Design and Construction
· GO Transit will takeover responsibility for project
management, design and construction from the TTC for the Terminal,
Re-Aligned Facilities and Parking Lots as of November 15, 2007. This
has been agreed in principle and, although construction activities are
not scheduled to start until mid 2008, a Handover Plan in the form of
a working procedure, has been prepared by TTC to facilitate the
transfer of the design deliverables and documentation to GO Transit.
This Handover Plan will be agreed to by both parties prior to the
transfer of design responsibilities. The handover should be approved
in order that progression to the 100% design stage is not delayed and
the transaction with SNC Lavalin is not impacted. Accordingly, this
report recommends approval of the handover. It should be noted that
the MOU cannot be signed until approval has been provided by all
parties, including the City of Toronto. It is expected that this
matter will be before Council in January 2008. If the MOU is not
approved by all parties, the responsibility for implementation will
have to be transferred back to the TTC which could result in delays.
This risk will be managed by the TTC in cooperation with GO Transit to
ensure that the design continues in accordance with the project schedule.
· TTC will retain responsibility (i.e. project management,
design and construction) for the East Entrance and East PPUDO and it
is projected that the construction will commence in spring 2008.
Real Estate
· GO Transit will own and operate the Terminal, which will be
used primarily by Mississauga Transit, GO Transit and provide access
routes for TTC buses to the existing TTC terminal. The Terminal is
located on lands partially owned by the City and partially owned by
Hydro One. The City owned land forms part of an existing TTC parking
lot and an area which forms the easterly portion of Subway Crescent.
This area will be stopped up and closed, and subsequently be conveyed
to GO Transit. The proposed closing date in the MOU for the City
lands, within the boundaries of the Terminal, is June 30, 2008 as the
process to close Subway Crescent is expected to be complete by that
date. City staff will be reporting to City Council on this matter in
due course.
· GO Transit will arrange directly with Hydro One a purchase
or lease of the Hydro One lands to be occupied by the Terminal and
provide an access route for TTC buses destined to the existing TTC bus
terminal. Accordingly, this report recommends that the TTC agree to
rescind its jurisdiction over that portion of the City lands which
form part of the existing parking lot.
· In order to satisfy the provincial funding requirement that
GO Transit secure assets equal to the value of the provincial funding,
the prospect of GO Transit acquiring certain City owned properties
within the Kipling Station lands, which are used by the TTC, is being
discussed but has not yet been resolved in the MOU. Any lands conveyed
to GO Transit would be immediately leased back to the City on a
perpetual basis for a nominal net rent with the City/TTC being
responsible for all operating costs and taxes. A further report will
be submitted on this matter when the City and TTC staff have fully
negotiated the MOU with GO Transit.
· Operation and maintenance agreements between the three
transit agencies will be finalized prior to the opening of the Terminal.
Financial
The financial elements of the MOU are still being discussed. The
position which City/TTC staff have taken are:
· GO Transit will secure the provincial project funding and
utilize the funding to reimburse the TTC for costs it has incurred to
the date of the handover and to fund the ongoing costs of the project;
· The project funding from Mississauga Transit ($5.5 million)
will be provided to the project and will be applied towards design and
construction of the East Entrance and East PPUDO. The TTC will provide
a full accounting with GO Transit being responsible for any costs in
excess of the $5.5 million or any excess funds being provided to GO
Transit for application to the overall Kipling Redevelopment project;
· GO Transit will be responsible to secure the required
budget for Kipling Station with the exception of the $5.5 million
provided by Mississauga Transit and will be responsible for all cost
overruns;
· GO Transit acknowledges that the TTC and the City have
entered into an agreement with SNC-Lavalin, which includes liquidated
damages after June 30, 2011. If the Kipling Station Redevelopment
project is not complete in the time required to relocate Mississauga
Transit from Islington Station, GO Transit will indemnify TTC and the
City for any losses associated with GO Transit assuming responsibility
for the design and construction of the Terminal, Re-aligned Facilities
and Parking Lots.
Once the financial details of the MOU are fully negotiated, a further
report will be submitted to the Commission.
JUSTIFICATION
Handover of the majority of the responsibility for the design and
construction of the project to GO Transit is a provincial funding
requirement and is acceptable to City/TTC staff. Rescinding the TTC
jurisdiction over the portion of the existing parking lot, to be
incorporated into the Terminal, enables City staff to move forward
with the process to declare the land surplus for conveyance to GO Transit.
October 23, 2007
22-11-5
Attachments: 1 – Lands to be Jurisdictionally Rescinded/East Entrance
and East PPUDO
2 – Terminal Lands and Re-Aligned Facilities
3 – Parking Lots
P:\Property Development\Commission & COTW\Commission Reports\Draft
Reports\CR KIPLING STATION REDEVELOPMENT HANDOVER TO GO TRANSIT - NOV
14 2007.doc
ShonTron
Moderator
Member Bio
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2007
- Messages
- 12,396
- Reaction score
- 9,045
- Location
- Ward 13 - Toronto Centre
Kipling as current:
Planned layout for parking, regional terminal and West Drop Off/Pick-up. The current carousel and the Auckland Road entrance will be gone.
New entrance under Kipling Avenue. Note the new subway train. The animations/flyovers were kind of cool.
One of the proposals for the new entrance to Kipling/Auckland, the best proposal, includes a wide pedestrian plaza,instead of having to walk via Auckland to access the station. The hydro towers get in the way of having something flush against Dundas.
Provision for Dundas LRT. It is only being looked at for potential feasibility and having a plan that could potentially include it.
This map was a treat. It shows where U/C and proposed towers are going. Mostly condos. Note the new Dundas/Kipling/Bloor intersections are not shown.
CDL.TO
Moderator
Thanks for the pics, Sean.
khris
Senior Member
Great updates!
The thing about Kipling station is that you might not even know there is a subway station if you're walking or driving along Dundas. They need to make it more visible, and better pedestrian access. It seems they're bringing it closer to Dundas, at least the entrance, which is good!
Also the LRT for Mississauga Transit is right on Dundas, with an entrance to Kipling Station. It appears to be underground I think?
The thing about Kipling station is that you might not even know there is a subway station if you're walking or driving along Dundas. They need to make it more visible, and better pedestrian access. It seems they're bringing it closer to Dundas, at least the entrance, which is good!
Also the LRT for Mississauga Transit is right on Dundas, with an entrance to Kipling Station. It appears to be underground I think?