Toronto Kipling Station Transit Hub | ?m | 2s | Metrolinx | SAI

[W. K. Lis]

Most of the original housing along The Queensway (Humber River to Islington) were post World War II housing. These days, additions are being added to them making them larger. Along The Queensway itself, condos are going up, replacing the single-use single story businesses and parking lots.

 

[toaster29]

For the record, I was not suggesting the subway be extended to Renforth, I was just saying it is a convenient location for MiWay commuters to change to TTC as it is on the border. Get all those MiWay buses off Dundas/Burhamthorpe/Bloor which just rush down at 70km+/h because they run express and don't need to stop.

As for The Queensway, it really should have an LRT. The problem is that people at the west end (where the current condos have been going up/proposed), it probably would still be just as long to take the Kipling bus up to Kipling station and then onto the subway as a Quuensway LRT would be. But once ridership increases and there are more local stops, it would make sense.

 

[drum118]

For the record, I was not suggesting the subway be extended to Renforth, I was just saying it is a convenient location for MiWay commuters to change to TTC as it is on the border. Get all those MiWay buses off Dundas/Burhamthorpe/Bloor which just rush down at 70km+/h because they run express and don't need to stop.

As for The Queensway, it really should have an LRT. The problem is that people at the west end (where the current condos have been going up/proposed), it probably would still be just as long to take the Kipling bus up to Kipling station and then onto the subway as a Quuensway LRT would be. But once ridership increases and there are more local stops, it would make sense.

TTC can't service the ridership on Bloor and Burnhamthrope today as well forcing MiWay riders to do an extra transfer and poor service. How is doing this at Renforth going to help when it will be even worse as well having to force 2 extra riders transfer??

As someone who has written 2 business-cases on Dundas/Burhamthorpe/Bloor of removing MiWay buses, it is the opposite where TTC will stop servicing Route 49 & 50 and walking away with 7 buses and a $1.5 million operation saving is the best way to go. The 2nd report has the full backing of Metrolinx and been used as an example for other places including Toronto. Fare integration is a big issues doing this. TTC riders would see better service that TTC couldn't offer with MiWay taking over the routes.

As someone who has push Queensway LRT even before the Waterfront Reset Study, the ridership is not there yet. It will be included within the 2018 Toronto official transportation upgrade plan

Blame Toronto for not extending the Subway to Cloverdale where the Gateway Hub was supposed to be, not Kipling.

 

[crs1026]

Amazing how we can be attempting fare integration but we don't want to integrate operations. There is no need to kick everyone off to transfer at Renforth. Just keep the buses rolling on to the riders' destination. Miway already comes to the subway, maybe add a route to Mount Dennis. Or down to Sherway. With Miway handling the local stops on West Mall and Eglinton instead of (or interleaved with) TTC. Renforth shoud not be a hub so much as a portal where local services enter and exit the busway.

We seem to have jumped to extending ECLRT to the airport when maybe an integrated BRT from Renforth to Mount Dennis is all the ridership will need for another 20 years. There is as much need for a head to head comparison on this route as on the Scarboro subway.

Extending the subway to Cloverdale is a very prudent move that would take traffic off Dundas and shave a few minutes off the trip from Mississauga.

- Paul

 

[W. K. Lis]

You should ask Mississauga those questions about routing to the Mt. Dennis Station. The proposed terminal should have 15 bus bays, some temporary until the LRT extension. This map shows the TTC bus route changes only.

 

[Leo_Chan]

You should ask Mississauga those questions about routing to the Mt. Dennis Station. The proposed terminal should have 15 bus bays, some temporary until the LRT extension. This map shows the TTC bus route changes only.

View attachment 126751

There honestly shouldn’t be any changes to MiWay routes as a result of the Eglinton Crosstown. If they were allowed to drop off and pick up along the way on Eglinton West, but that’s probably going to happen in joint with Durham Region Transit (and YRT) to change the Toronto Laws to allow for 416 transit operators to pickup and drop off within Toronto.

 

[TOareaFan]

it is an interesting concept though......wonder how successful a, say, GO bus would be that connected Mississauga's core to the Crosstown at Mt. Dennis?

Use the transitway to get to Renforth....then scoot along Elginton to the station.....that is about, what, 5 miles from Renforth to there?

 

[crs1026]

it is an interesting concept though......wonder how successful a, say, GO bus would be that connected Mississauga's core to the Crosstown at Mt. Dennis?

Use the transitway to get to Renforth....then scoot along Elginton to the station.....that is about, what, 5 miles from Renforth to there?

One of the facts that my municipal transit planner friends trot out when they are complaining about ML having too much money is that GO's threshold for number of fares per hour to justify adding a bus to a route is way lower than what they are allowed - something like 13 fares per hour is enough to add a GO bus, whereas the city threshold is closer to 20.

So yeah - a GO bus is tempting. But why wouldn't Miway and TTC just collaborate?

- Paul

PS: Eglinton/Renforth to Eglinton/Weston Rd - 5.25 miles per Google

 

[TOareaFan]

One of the facts that my municipal transit planner friends trot out when they are complaining about ML having too much money is that GO's threshold for number of fares per hour to justify adding a bus to a route is way lower than what they are allowed - something like 13 fares per hour is enough to add a GO bus, whereas the city threshold is closer to 20.

Is that difference in threshold explained by different economics? GO fares are higher and they vary by distance......so they do pass on more cost to passengers.....I have no idea what the wage difference is (if any) between a typical GO driver and typical TTC driver but if their expenses were lower in addition to their revenues being higher....it might explain why the differnce between how many fares per hour they need to justify adding a bus.

PS: Eglinton/Renforth to Eglinton/Weston Rd - 5.25 miles per Google

Thanks....so eyballing it I was not far off.

 

[crs1026]

Is that difference in threshold explained by different economics? GO fares are higher and they vary by distance......so they do pass on more cost to passengers.....I have no idea what the wage difference is (if any) between a typical GO driver and typical TTC driver but if their expenses were lower in addition to their revenues being higher....it might explain why the differnce between how many fares per hour they need to justify adding a bus.

Good question. Usually when I hear this a) beer is involved and b) somebody has had a hard day. I don't know how the economics of a GO double decker compare to a transit bus (artic or short bus). Just making the point that there is no reason to add a third transit agency to what two sizeable properties ought to do between themselves.

- Paul

 

[adrianaliu]

cloverdale extension is a good long term plan cuz theres so many busses going to kipling from the 427 (from the north AND south) that have to use congested dundas, and yeah there needs to be an express service between sq1 and mt. dennis via the transitway I don't care who it's operated by.

 

[BurlOak]

cloverdale extension is a good long term plan cuz theres so many busses going to kipling from the 427 (from the north AND south) that have to use congested dundas, and yeah there needs to be an express service between sq1 and mt. dennis via the transitway I don't care who it's operated by.

Good long term plan?

That's means the level of buses, plus some annual increases, is acceptable for the next 20 years?

 

[adrianaliu]

Good long term plan?

That's means the level of buses, plus some annual increases, is acceptable for the next 20 years?

well I mean long term cause theres so many other important priorities. like i wouldn't wanna see this complete before relief line or the entire eglinton line

 

[BurlOak]

well I mean long term cause theres so many other important priorities. like i wouldn't wanna see this complete before relief line or the entire eglinton line

It's a 1 stop, at-grade extension to reduce congestion on Dundas and serve buses of TTC, Mississauga, and GO. If something this obvious doesn't get built, it's no wonder things are so messed up.

 

[adrianaliu]

It's a 1 stop, at-grade extension to reduce congestion on Dundas and serve buses of TTC, Mississauga, and GO. If something this obvious doesn't get built, it's no wonder things are so messed up.

they might not be able to do it at grade because of the condos going up west of kipling but yeah if the option is there they for sure should be doing that. a cloverdale terminus also allows for direct bus ramps from the 427 to the station and easier access to the dundas rapid transit service, also cloverdale mall is adjacent to the milton line so go train station can be moved too. I think this extension should be built around the same time as the dundas brt in mississauga because while there are other priorities it wouldnt make sense to build the brt to kipling just to extend the subway later. Im pretty sure the mall owner offered to use the land for a transit terminal a few years ago but nobody showed interest which is a mistake. The kipling terminal will need upgrades for sure theres nothing wrong with that but cloverdale is the place to build the multimodal hub for etobicoke.