Toronto John Innes Recreation Centre & Moss Park Arena Revitalization | 21.35m | 4s | City of Toronto | MJMA

AlbertC said:
More renderings:

MJMA - Moss Park Redevelopment

Architecture and Design with a 30-year legacy of design excellence developing hybrid public spaces that form the civic anchors and social focus of communities
www.mjma.ca www.mjma.ca


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Wait, I thought it looked familiar because - MJMA were involved in the original design (and these are the original renders) from what, 2016:


Remembered it - because of this renderperson:

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AoD
 
The Community Centre seems to follow a similar logic at first blush.

Same siting, same reliance on public space at-grade, outdoors under the canopy of the program-space above.

The high level park concept seems to have changed a fair bit though.

That's not necessarily a bad thing.

I remain of the view that its questionable to reduce sports field space in an area relatively deprived of same, when few new large parks to support same are plausible.

Better to shift functions that can fit in smaller spaces (neighbourhood tennis court, basketball court, space for a farmer's market into one of the newer, small'ish parks that can be designed to purpose.

The space reads as a bit over-programmed to me.

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Its also truly unfortunate that we can't talk to the Feds about shifting the Armoury.

Even rebuilding on site, but bumping it up a floor and shrinking the footprint and designing it to maximize the usable footprint of the park would great.

Alternatively, I wonder about shifting the Community Centre on to the one of the TCHC parking lots at Moss Park (east side of Sherbourne); and leaving the entire space as programmable park space on the west side.

Which could also support replacement housing, allowing for the renewal of Moss Park (the TCHC site)
 
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I just don't see how such radically disparate population groups--ie, LGBTQIA2S+ and homeless/street-involved/substance-using--can be expected to share the same spaces under one roof. The intentions are laudable but I don't think they're workable. I'm open to learning otherwise though.

(Of course, there are those who belong to multiple groups. Still...)
 
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condovo said:
I just don't see how such radically disparate population groups--ie, LGBTQIA2S+ and homeless/street-involved/substance-using--can be expected to share the same spaces under one roof. The intentions are laudable but I don't think they're workable. I'm open to learning otherwise though.
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They already do at 519 I believe (and it is hardly unknown that the LGBTQ community faces substance-use issues , nevermind homelessness- esp. among youth).

AoD
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
They already do at 519 I believe (and it is hardly unknown that the LGBTQ community faces substance-use issues , nevermind homelessness- esp. among youth).

AoD
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I think the level of sharing of spaces at the rec centre would be on a whole different level than at The 519 community centre. The sharing of spaces on Church St is casual and relatively fleeting at best. And there are those in the LBGTQ+ community, particularly older folks, who don't always feel safe at the community centre as it is, especially when "sharing" with street youth.
 
condovo said:
I think the level of sharing of spaces at the rec centre would be on a whole different level than at The 519 community centre. The sharing of spaces on Church St is casual and relatively fleeting at best.
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True, but we don't really know the "program" of the rec centre; and frankly I imagine the compatibility issue isn't specific to the LGBT community. Ultimately it is an urban public facility though, and just like libraries you can't bar anyone just because they are homeless.

AoD
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
True, but we don't really know the "program" of the rec centre; and frankly I imagine the compatibility issue isn't specific to the LGBT community. Ultimately it is an urban public facility though, and just like libraries you can't bar anyone just because they are homeless.

AoD
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I suppose but I'm sniffing an ideological agenda here as much as a practical one and I'm not sure the two are compatible in real life. But, like I said, I'm open to being proven wrong.
 
condovo said:
I suppose but I'm sniffing an ideological agenda here as much as a practical one and I'm not sure the two are compatible in real life. But, like I said, I'm open to being proven wrong.
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It cut both ways - the Moss Park community could (rightly or wrongly) look at the funding and 519 involvement as a gift-horse in their backyard. At the end of the day, as long as everyone gains more from this project than they lose..

AoD
 
I look at this as a really massive safe space for everyone. The City is in dear need of more of these, IMO.
 
UtakataNoAnnex said:
I look at this as a really massive safe space for everyone. The City is in dear need of more of these, IMO.
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I guess that's my point, that you can't realistically have a massive "safe space" for everyone under one roof. I agree that there's a need in the city for more "safe spaces" for street-involved people and for LGBTQIA2S+ people but not necessarily together.

(I suppose that those falling into both groups should be able to choose one or the other or both.)
 
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Selfishly, I will miss playing softball here every week with TSSC. I do wish they replace the field - It's one of the only downtown fields left. The crowd was always entertaining and respectful. There was a regular who would sit behind home plate and heckle the players while doing commentary. I once jogged out to left field and there was a man sitting in the field of play. I told him it was dangerous and politely asked him to move - he said one sec, threw his jacket over his head, took a hit of his crack pipe, and moved to another spot. Some very fun and interesting times there.
 
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I love the building but Toronto's position that green space needs to keep up with population growth is a colossal joke at this point. Not only do they let the few remaining lots suitable for parks/public squares slip through their fingers but we're now going to build on one of the few sizeable parks in the downtown? Don't even get me started on the Rail Deck 'Park' fiasco.

So not only are we not significantly adding to green space but we're REDUCING the amount of green space? This is another lost opportunity. The Armouries need to be re-located somewhere else, the recreation centre/pool needs to be re-built on the perimeter or close by, and the WHOLE thing needs to be turned into a park. Cormier?

I'm at a total loss at the complete disconnect. Toronto will have no one but itself to blame when it wakes up in 30 years and realizes that it has a massive park deficit and every inch of park we do have gets rammed with people 24/7. There's not enough to go around now and our population is going to DOUBLE. What about this do they not understand?
 
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isaidso said:
I love the building but Toronto's position that green space needs to keep up with population growth is a colossal joke at this point. Not only do they let the few remaining lots suitable for parks/public squares slip through their fingers but we're now going to build on one of the few sizeable parks in the downtown? Don't even get me started on the Rail Deck 'Park' fiasco.

So not only are we not significantly adding to green space but we're REDUCING the amount of green space? This is another lost opportunity. The Armouries need to be re-located somewhere else, the recreation centre/pool needs to be re-built on the perimeter somewhere, and the WHOLE thing needs to be turned into a park.

I'm at a total loss at the complete disconnect. Toronto will have no one but itself to blame when it wakes up in 30 years and realizes that it has a massive park deficit and every ik inch of park it does have gets rammed with people 24/7. There's not enough to go around now and our population is going to DOUBLE. What about this do they not understand?
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I agree w/the thrust of what you're saying.........and have previously indicated I would like to see all or part of the Armoury lands used for the new community centre.

Be that as it may.........

It is the intent, so far as I know, to remove the current community centre on Sherbourne and add that space back to the park.

However, the arena would remain.

At one point, it was contemplated to put a new arena underground, below the new community centre, allowing that space (current arena) to be added back to the park; but that was removed from the scope some time ago.
 
Northern Light said:
I agree w/the thrust of what you're saying.........and have previously indicated I would like to see all or part of the Armoury lands used for the new community centre.

Be that as it may.........

It is the intent, so far as I know, to remove the current community centre on Sherbourne and add that space back to the park.

However, the arena would remain.

At one point, it was contemplated to put a new arena underground, below the new community centre, allowing that space (current arena) to be added back to the park; but that was removed from the scope some time ago.
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I suppose I should take solace that it was, at least, on their radar. That said, we're being painted into a corner. We need creative solutions to save the bits we have left, maximize them as much as we can, and prevent the few 'vacant' lots we have left from being developed. We need strong willed, persistent, city staffers who won't take 'NO' for an answer. Money is always a problem so perhaps a moratorium on development on designated lots needs to happen till we figure out how to accomplish these things. Drastic times call for drastic measures. We can't fix this after buildings have gone up.

Btw, Moss Park public housing is another golden opportunity. I imagine those buildings will eventually need to be replaced by new buildings. When that happens that giant block they're sitting on needs to be turned into a large park. ALL OF IT.. The new buildings can then be built on its perimeter. Not only would it create a much needed sizeable park downtown, but it will increase the quality of life for Torontonians and the people living in those apartments. Currently, the whole estate looks awful and it's a terrible waste of valuable land. Make it a park. Cormier again? And intensify the perimeter.
 
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