innsertnamehere
Superstar
Given the Liberal majority I think AD2W GO is a fairly safe bet.
BurlOak
Senior Member
I thought that TTC ridership dropped substantially in the early 1990's, taking over a decade to come back.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
that was because of cheap gas. VERY cheap gas.
Ridership fell throughout the 1990's as well, most of which experienced strong economic growth.
My understanding is that the TTC didn't start posting record ridership figures again until ~2008.. It lost a ton of ridership in the 1990's.
Ridership fell throughout the 1990's as well, most of which experienced strong economic growth.
My understanding is that the TTC didn't start posting record ridership figures again until ~2008.. It lost a ton of ridership in the 1990's.
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TOareaFan
Superstar
Couple of problems with your argument......1) in the first part you point out that Brampton is being set up as a pass through point to and from Mississauga......people living in A can get to Z by passing through Brampton. People can work in A and live in Z by passing through Brampton.......but the last part asserts that the housing/job growth in A and/or Z somehow spurs growth of housing and jobs in Brampton.....they are contra arguments.......
....2) In the very EA we are discussing they are pointing out that the vast majority of he growth in jobs and housing will not be in Brampton.
It sounds like Brampton becomes the Crewe of the network....lots of people passing through a train station but never getting out of the station. Go to England, stand on the platform at Crewe and ask people what happens in Crewe....I did it for a few hours and the answer was consistently "don't know, I have never left the station".
BurlOak
Senior Member
As I recall the strong economic growth only started in the mid 1990's - coincidentally, just after Mike Harris was elected.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
Yep, had nothing to do with global growth trends including an extremely fast growing US economy. (which "coincidentally" coincided with Clinton's election)
doady
Senior Member
And their numbers indicate no economic growth and development? It seems like you will believe whatever you want to believe, even if the numbers indicate the exact opposite. There is no point discussing this further with you.
that was because of cheap gas. VERY cheap gas.
Ridership fell throughout the 1990's as well, most of which experienced strong economic growth.
My understanding is that the TTC didn't start posting record ridership figures again until ~2008.. It lost a ton of ridership in the 1990's.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_1990s_recession
doady
Senior Member
howl
Active Member
I wouldn't really call it a problem with the argument since I was basically agreeing that the LRT isn't as important to the people of downtown Brampton as it is to the people of Mississauga. The most important reason for going to Brampton is to make the connection to the GO line. The LRT going to downtown Brampton isn't a local issue - it is a regional/system-wide issue. Without that connection the whole line suffers.
However, Brampton has the opportunity to take advantage of that connection and use it to create a more attractive location (both aesthetically and financially) so that more people will want to live and work there. Quite frankly, I think next to Cooksville, downtown Brampton will be the star child of the project as far as inspiring new development and new urban spaces. If I worked in the Employment district or the MCC and were looking to buy a condo unit on the LRT line downtown Brampton would be one of the first places I'd look.
nfitz
Superstar
That's totally untrue. Very cheap gas? Not relative to the mid-1980s when ridership peaked. It was related to employment. Looking at the chart below, oil prices were steady (other than a brief spike in 1990/1 during Desert Storm), and only dropped around 1996-1998 - a period where TTC ridership (and employment) grew.
Not in Toronto. Employment dropped from about 1.37 million in 1990 to a low of about 1.12 million in 1996. It then started to grow, the very same year TTC ridership started to grow. It's only since 2003 or so that ridership has started to increase separately from employment.
Where do you get this stuff. TTC has always reported it's ridership.
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DKsan
Active Member
I know of at least two small businesses (one that I'm working with to get set up) who are locating into downtown Brampton with the idea of the LRT and the whole regional connectivity as a massive positive.
Easy to get talent in and out. Or talk to others in another part of the region.
TOareaFan
Superstar
I am trying to understand/believe their own numbers.
They state that by 2031 the entire corridor study area will seen an increase in population of 59k and an increase in employment of 31.5k. They also state that 48% of the population growth (28k) and 72% of the employment growth (22.7k) will happen in a stretch of the corrider that constitutes around 20% of the entire corridor.
So the other 80% of the corridor will combine for about 31k more people and about 9k new jobs. How much of this will be in that stretch of this that I have long thought was overbuilding? Even if all of those remaining new people were between Steeles and Church Street in Brampton (highly unlikely but I'll play along) that represents a growth in population of about 1,800 a year between now and 2031....so something less than 10% of Brampton's annual growth...yet this is our priority transit project?
If it is good for the region, fine.....then the proponents should say that......but the sales pitch within Brampton is that this will be transformative that it will reshape our city that it will benefit so many of us......it is just BS to sell a project that other people want/need and none of their own numbers support the kind of statements that they are making to get support within Brampton (support that, frankly, they don't need to proceed).
innsertnamehere
Superstar
Record ridership not ridership in general.
Ridership peaked in the 1980's and didn't return to that level until 2008.
Ridership peaked in the 1980's and didn't return to that level until 2008.
nfitz
Superstar
Ah ... I misread ... though it's an interesting use of the verb "to post".
True ... but it had nothing to do with low gas prices, and was directly linked to employment. (though the magnitude of the recent record ridership does appear to have some link to gas prices ... though I suspect increasing mid-day congestion is also a factor ...)
howl
Active Member
If those population and job numbers are from the 2010 Master Plan then they represent how much growth the cities are expecting to accommodate along the corridor with or without the LRT. They are based on the province's Places-to-Grow numbers which forced municipalities to plan for a specific number of people. The LRT is part of the plan to accommodate those people. The LRT may redistribute some of those people and may actually bring in additional people (e.g. Hurontario may over perform while other parts of the cities under perform with respect to the cities' growth conformity plans) or perhaps not. No one really knows. All the cities can really do is encourage developers to build along the corridor and discourage them from developing elsewhere.