JayBeeGooner
Active Member
The Mississauga leading candidates agree that the LRT must be built. It's refreshing to see candidates not use transit as a wedge issue.
CapCurk
New Member
I'm sure if Carolyn Parish decides to run, she will make it an issue. It is nice to see a united front on an issue that will greatly affect the city.
andrewpmk
Senior Member
I have a suspicion this is true. The LRT supporters will claim that the LRT can carry several times the number of people a car lane can, but that ignores the fact that most people in Mississauga will continue driving to work even after it is finished. Obviously reducing the Gardiner from 3 lanes to 2 lanes each way makes traffic congestion much worse; the same is true with St. Clair just east of Keele. I wonder if anyone has bothered to study this? That is, does an increased number of people using the LRT rather than driving fully offset the reduced road capacity causing traffic congestion to remain the same before/after LRT construction (with reduction of lanes from 3 to 2 each way)? I could easily see this being a problem on the section of Hurontario near the 401 which is by far the most congested part of Hurontario. I always notice that the bus lane on Eglinton east of Don Mills seems to make traffic noticeably worse during the times it is in effect, compared to just before or after.
In any case I have a suspicion that Finch/Sheppard/Scarborough LRT vehicles will be moved to Hurontario, Hamilton and Cambridge. With the "transit solutions for Finch and Sheppard" line in the Liberal platform, the Liberals seem to be running away from these unpopular proposals. I think that John Tory is going to end up winning the municipal election because I can't see Rob Ford getting as many votes as the polls claim, and those voters are unlikely to vote Chow. Also the enormous cost of the DRL and GO expansion means that other projects will need to be delayed/cancelled to prevent the provincial budget deficit from getting too high.
doady
Senior Member
It's not necessarily about LRT, it's about letting people decide for themselves. If municipalities want LRT, let them built LRT. To attempt to interfere and take away self-determination - not letting a local issue such as local transit be decided by local government - I don't think people appreciate that. Certainly, Hazel McCallion didn't appreciate it.
So I don't think it's an urban vs. rural thing - the PC support declined in almost every single rural riding too. I just think people didn't like Hudak's extreme, heavy-handed approach. Aren't Tories supposed to be more "hands-off"? That's the contradiction of conservatism: they interfere more than anyone.
But yeah, sure, attacking Mississauga and Brampton Transit is not an effective way to shore up support. MT is the 4th largest transit system in Ontario; BT will soon be the 5th largest, if it's not already. A lot of people use these systems, and even more people want to use them. This isn't Arlington, Texas. That Tea Party shit is not popular here.
So I don't think it's an urban vs. rural thing - the PC support declined in almost every single rural riding too. I just think people didn't like Hudak's extreme, heavy-handed approach. Aren't Tories supposed to be more "hands-off"? That's the contradiction of conservatism: they interfere more than anyone.
But yeah, sure, attacking Mississauga and Brampton Transit is not an effective way to shore up support. MT is the 4th largest transit system in Ontario; BT will soon be the 5th largest, if it's not already. A lot of people use these systems, and even more people want to use them. This isn't Arlington, Texas. That Tea Party shit is not popular here.
salsa
Senior Member
Fun fact: Arlington is the largest city in the U.S without a public transit system. Population is 375,000.
junctionist
Senior Member
People will take whatever system is most practical. If LRT and GO make for a fast commute, people won't mess around with cars. The studies always point to that. LRT is critical for Missississauga's future.
Hazel McCallion shouldn't even retire. Mississauga needs her more than ever. If she dies in office, so be it--hers is a life of public service that has been great for her and her city.
doady
Senior Member
Most people in Toronto drive to work as well. 52.9% of Toronto residents use a car to get to work, either as driver or passenger. By your standard it was a mistake for Toronto build subways instead of more expressways.
So traffic is worse along Eglinton during rush hour than outside rush hour. Jesus Christ.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Yes?
howl
Active Member
See "Appendix for Chapter 3": http://lrt-mississauga.brampton.ca/EN/Master-Plan/Pages/Related-Documents.aspx
andrewpmk
Senior Member
The bus lane on Eglinton east is only in effect 7am-10am, 3pm-7pm Monday-Friday. So the traffic is significantly worse at 3:05pm when the bus lane is in effect than 2:55pm when it isn't. The bus lane seems to be making traffic significantly worse and probably doesn't speed the buses up very much. And this is with the bus lane allowing HOVs to use it as well, and some drivers disobeying it (though most seem to obey it in my experience).
In other words when the Eglinton LRT gets built, traffic will get worse. Given that many of the people driving in that area are shopping at big box stores buying large quantities of stuff, they will never use the LRT. You see the same problem at Keele/St Clair.
I assume that the same is true with Hurontario because much of the traffic on the worst congested section of Hurontario is coming off the 401 and can't logically use the LRT. Also there is a lot of truck traffic in that area. The number of people driving around Mississauga will probably remain the same while a bunch of induced demand starts using the LRT and making it overcrowded.
andrewpmk
Senior Member
"If a future condition for which the model is being tested is vastly different from the
existing condition for which it was calibrated, as is the case with the 2031 network
(which includes 52 major transit projects), then the level of accuracy desired in the
results is a little less certain. In the GTHA, experience over the last few decades has
shown that models tend to generally under predict demands on new or greatly
enhanced transportation facilities."
Also in the same report I notice that it claims that the daily riders for Sheppard LRT will be 155,333. This seems insanely high to me (compared to existing Sheppard subway ridership), even though the claimed peak point ridership is 5,300. Even if it doesn't overwhelm the LRT, wouldn't this totally overwhelm transfer capacity at Don Mills station, with 265 people transferring every 3 minutes? It seems like if nothing else, a subway is needed there solely to prevent Don Mills station from looking like Bloor-Yonge. There is also the problem that (probably) subway is more attractive than LRT and will attract more riders. I say probably because the subway wouldn't go as far east.
existing condition for which it was calibrated, as is the case with the 2031 network
(which includes 52 major transit projects), then the level of accuracy desired in the
results is a little less certain. In the GTHA, experience over the last few decades has
shown that models tend to generally under predict demands on new or greatly
enhanced transportation facilities."
Also in the same report I notice that it claims that the daily riders for Sheppard LRT will be 155,333. This seems insanely high to me (compared to existing Sheppard subway ridership), even though the claimed peak point ridership is 5,300. Even if it doesn't overwhelm the LRT, wouldn't this totally overwhelm transfer capacity at Don Mills station, with 265 people transferring every 3 minutes? It seems like if nothing else, a subway is needed there solely to prevent Don Mills station from looking like Bloor-Yonge. There is also the problem that (probably) subway is more attractive than LRT and will attract more riders. I say probably because the subway wouldn't go as far east.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
when 265 people every 3 minutes are walking across a platform, I see no issue. its not like they need to negotiate staircases or anything. they walk across a platform. At bloor yonge around 800 people are let off every 2 minutes (which will drop to every 90 seconds in the next few years), and squeeze onto two small staircases. It will literally involve getting off your seat on the LRT, walking across the platform and onto the waiting subway train, and sitting down again.
Sheppard can of course increase frequencies to every 3 minutes as well if it is needed to catch up. There is an insane amount of lax capacity on Sheppard.
Then you get the thing where the Scarborough subway will likely significantly reduce peak point ridership on the LRT so that peak point ridership is around 4,000 PPHD at Don Mills.
Sheppard can of course increase frequencies to every 3 minutes as well if it is needed to catch up. There is an insane amount of lax capacity on Sheppard.
Then you get the thing where the Scarborough subway will likely significantly reduce peak point ridership on the LRT so that peak point ridership is around 4,000 PPHD at Don Mills.
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andrewpmk
Senior Member
Except for the inevitable delays on either line which cause 1000 people to be standing around waiting to transfer.
About 150,000 per day for Sheppard LRT (3x existing Sheppard subway) seems insane to me. This is Metrolinx's own number. So what, does this mean Sheppard subway also carries 150,000 or so if the vast majority of riders get off at Don Mills? We are talking a number that is almost half the Bay Area Rapid Transit's entire ridership.
denfromoakvillemilton
Senior Member
Member Bio
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And particular reason you are against hurontario?
innsertnamehere
Superstar
150,000 a day is fine, not all of them will be getting off at Don Mills. Using traditional projectory models (10x peak hour is equal to the entire day) roughly 50,000 would actually use Don Mills.
1,000 people could also easily fit on the Don Mills platform, its huge. Its the widest centre platform in the system.
By your metric 40,000 people a day make the transfer from the sheppard bus already.. Plus whatever comes off of the Don Mills bus and other buses that interchange with Don Mills. Don Mills currently is used by 33,000 people a day, much smaller stations such as Union, with roughly 1/2 the platform width, handle over triple the ridership. By 2031, Don Mills will probably be around 60-70,000, still a very, very safe number. Don Mills won't be turning into Bloor - Yonge any time soon.
1,000 people could also easily fit on the Don Mills platform, its huge. Its the widest centre platform in the system.
By your metric 40,000 people a day make the transfer from the sheppard bus already.. Plus whatever comes off of the Don Mills bus and other buses that interchange with Don Mills. Don Mills currently is used by 33,000 people a day, much smaller stations such as Union, with roughly 1/2 the platform width, handle over triple the ridership. By 2031, Don Mills will probably be around 60-70,000, still a very, very safe number. Don Mills won't be turning into Bloor - Yonge any time soon.