Hamilton Hamilton Line B LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[Allandale25]

Oh, you might be right. I don't know the plans all that well, and copied this from a recent CBC article. If anyone has something more up to date (even if homemade), that'd be appreciated. I drive on the 403 through Hamilton all the time, but almost never venture in (so I know very little about the city).

I saw this map tweeted out Moaz.

He indicated the dark red line is what was announced. I wonder how they will run service? Will some trains divert onto the spur to the GO station on James Street or will they all travel there?

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

That spur is actually a very good addition even if its utility is somewhat limited or challenging initially. It will be the precursor to the A line of the BLAST network.

 

[vic]

I saw this map tweeted out Moaz.

View attachment 47031

He indicated the dark red line is what was announced. I wonder how they will run service? Will some trains divert onto the spur to the GO station on James Street or will they all travel there?

It would *really* suck for anyone going cross-town to be diverted all the way to West Harbour (FKA James North) GO. That's probably about a 2.5km diversion, plus all the turning around etc.

I'm also really curious how they will handle that.

 

[CDL.TO]

I'm assuming that it's actually going to be operated as 2 or 3 routes.

 

[wopchop]

I hadn't heard about that. And yes, it does definitely seem like low hanging fruit, especially since there's a $14 billion pot to draw on for municipalities outside the GTHA. I've been doing the rough math, and it doesn't seem like there's $14 billion worth of projects outside the GTHA in the next 10 years, unless the price tag for HSR is going to be massive. Ottawa's $1 billion and K-W's $300 million are the only big ticket items I can think of. It seems like the GTHA pot is going to be really tight though.

Don't forget that a lot of the $15 billion in the Moving Ontario Forward projects for outside the GTHA is not just for rapid transit systems, but for road and general infrastructure projects, such as Highway 7 between Kitchener & Guelph, Highway 401 in London, Highway 417 in Ottawa, & Highway 11/17 between Thunder Bay & Nipigon, and Ring of Fire development. It also includes ongoing programs like the Small Communities Fund & the Ontario Community Infrastructure Fund. There was also something about investing in utilities to provide more users access to the natural gas network.

 

[Allandale25]

I'm assuming that it's actually going to be operated as 2 or 3 routes.

That would make sense. Apologies for such a crude drawing, but here's a rough sketch of the three branches. There could be east-west service on 1 and 3 and north-south service on 2. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

 

[gweed123]

Don't forget that a lot of the $15 billion in the Moving Ontario Forward projects for outside the GTHA is not just for rapid transit systems, but for road and general infrastructure projects, such as Highway 7 between Kitchener & Guelph, Highway 401 in London, Highway 417 in Ottawa, & Highway 11/17 between Thunder Bay & Nipigon, and Ring of Fire development. It also includes ongoing programs like the Small Communities Fund & the Ontario Community Infrastructure Fund. There was also something about investing in utilities to provide more users access to the natural gas network.

Acknowledged. Didn't know about the Small Communities fund and the natural gas network stuff though, I thought it was just for big road and transit infrastructure projects. And I don't believe Highway 417 in Ottawa was part of that. The western widening was completed back in November, and the widening related to Phase I of the LRT project will be finished next month. Rural highway widenings aren't as complex as urban widenings, so you'd need a lot of KMs of widening to rack up a huge tally.

 

[mdrejhon]

I'm assuming that it's actually going to be operated as 2 or 3 routes.

Agreed.
Run them as separate lines, so we already have a running A-Line.
Besides, Hunter will intiailly be the station with all-day GO service (although this could possibly change) so there's really no need to divert trains.
It's probably 2 routes, since they're talking of a pedestrian connection instead of a "Hurontario style loop" towards Hunter (which would allow 3 routes to make better sense).

On the surface, without even knowing the BLAST proposal, the spur line can "seem" a bad idea. But it protects for an A-Line, and nudges it forward, when the Mountain wants LRT! It would essentially become Hamilton's inexpensive airport train role, not just public transit too, where anybody on Metrolinx's rapid transit commuter network can reach any GTHA airport via rails. Burlington without car, wants to fly via Hamilton or Pearson? Catch an all day GO train, then transfer to either UPX or A-Line. You're at an airport. And Island is serviced by TTC 509 too. So all 3 airports get serviced by rapid rail transit!

It should also be a big boon for the airport lands someday, Mountain needs to realize letting Lower City have a starter LRT network, will eventually benefit them as well, if they eventually also want an LRT.

 

[CDL.TO]

By 2 or 3 lines, I mean to suggest that we would see the following:

1. Mac - Queenston TC
2. Mac - WH GO
3. WH GO - Queenston TC

With all the student traffic going to Mac, and the lack of a strong trip generator on the east end I would estimate that route #3 would likely have the lowest ridership, and might only be justified as a rush-hour only route to get commuters to the GO station.

 

[mdrejhon]

That would make sense. Apologies for such a crude drawing, but here's a rough sketch of the three branches. There could be east-west service on 1 and 3 and north-south service on 2. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

This would make sense if they modified the LRT plan to use a "Hurontario style loop" that loops onto Hunter, then MacNab, then back onto King.

Advantages include
- Trains on MacNab (municipal bus terminal)
- Trains directly in front of Hunter street in front of GO, then back when past the GO station.
- Allows better interlining between 3 routes instead of 2.
- Direct station-to-station connection between Hunter GO and West Harbor GO

Disadvantages include:
- Capacity of supporting 3 routes, if the loop is only 1 track
- Slower for through service
- Delays caused by LRTs turning around the loop

For A-Line LRT, it might be theoretically excluded from the Hurontario style loop, so that it can stay on the James Street alignment, straight towards Mountrain.
On the other hand, it may be simpler to just run 2 routes.

I really hope that they turn Main Street into a 2-way street.

 

[wopchop]

Acknowledged. Didn't know about the Small Communities fund and the natural gas network stuff though, I thought it was just for big road and transit infrastructure projects. And I don't believe Highway 417 in Ottawa was part of that. The western widening was completed back in November, and the widening related to Phase I of the LRT project will be finished next month. Rural highway widenings aren't as complex as urban widenings, so you'd need a lot of KMs of widening to rack up a huge tally.

I'm just repeating was I read. It was part of the Moving Ontario Forward report, released in May 2015. It mentions "Improvements to 417 in Ottawa".

Apparently $1billion alone is set-aside for Ring of Fire infrastructure. It also specifically mentions that the Windsor-London-Kitchener-Toronto HSR rail EA and GO Services outside the GTHA would be part of this fund.

I would also guess that municipalities will be able to apply for funding for smaller projects that they require (roads, bridges, etc), as you're right, it is a big pot of funding.

 

[vic]

My guess is that someone at MTO and/or Metrolinx has been tasked to watch this thread closely in order to find any good ideas of how to actually make their announced plan actually work. Keep it up!

 

[mdrejhon]

My guess is that someone at MTO and/or Metrolinx has been tasked to watch this thread closely in order to find any good ideas of how to actually make their announced plan actually work. Keep it up!

Wouldn't be surprising, at least from UrbanToronto members who send messages directly.

I sent a couple of letters via http://hamiltonlightrail.ca/ which emails several at Hamilton council and Government of Ontario.
I even got responses by a few Hamilton council members, Eisenberg's office, and Wynne's office, thanking and agreeing with details I wrote.
I sometimes tweet to @Metrolinx @GOTransit links to my posts on urbantoronto.ca and I have gotten three responses from them confirming they've forwarded to the appropriate people.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

Wouldn't be surprising, at least from UrbanToronto members who send messages directly.

I sent a couple of letters via http://hamiltonlightrail.ca/ which emails several at Hamilton council and Government of Ontario.
I even got responses by a few Hamilton council members, Eisenberg's office, and Wynne's office, thanking and agreeing with details I wrote.
I sometimes tweet to @Metrolinx @GOTransit links to my posts on urbantoronto.ca and I have gotten three responses from them confirming they've forwarded to the appropriate people.

I dearly hope somebody in Tory's office is watching the Scarborough Subway thread.

 

[gweed123]

By 2 or 3 lines, I would suggest we would see the following:

1. Mac - Queenston TC
2. Mac - WH GO
3. WH GO - Queenston TC

With all the student traffic going to Mac, and the lack of a strong trip generator on the west end I would estimate that route #3 would likely have the lowest ridership, and might only be justified as a rush-hour only route to get commuters to the GO station.

That would certainly make sense, although I would potentially even group 2 and 3 together into a single line, at least for rush hour. Most people who choose that line would be bound for WH GO anyway, so from a wayfinding perspective it's probably easier that way.

I'm just repeating was I read. It was part of the Moving Ontario Forward report, released in May 2015. It mentions "Improvements to 417 in Ottawa".

Apparently $1billion alone is set-aside for Ring of Fire infrastructure. It also specifically mentions that the Windsor-London-Kitchener-Toronto HSR rail EA and GO Services outside the GTHA would be part of this fund.

I would also guess that municipalities will be able to apply for funding for smaller projects that they require (roads, bridges, etc), as you're right, it is a big pot of funding.

Hmm, that's interesting, thanks! I wonder if they meant the Ottawa Valley, because I know that the twinning west of Arnprior is going forward. But yes, it is a pretty big pot, with far fewer big ticket (>$1B) items chewing up a substantial chunk of it (unlike GO RER for the GTHA pot).